Alabama Democrat defecting to the GOP

[Fate]

Maybe if the Democrats did less whining about death panels and that sort of nonsense, more would get done.

Plenty got done. They gutted much of the cost containment in the bill due to Kronn and the Teabaggets bitching about dead grandmas.

[Razgovory]

Maybe if the Democrats did less whining about death panels and that sort of nonsense, more would get done.

Well, it is the Democratic party.  It's not like they are suppose to be effective.  They haven't been effective since 1964.

[Eddie Teach]

No, he has a point.  Complaining about extremists on both sides is at best lazy at worst showing incredible susceptibility to demagoguery.  Demagogues do best when paint their opponents in a bad light.  Seeing everyone in a bad light does not mean you are some kind of enlightened cynic.  It means you are believe the demagogues of both sides to the degree that it has sapped you into inaction.

I agree with you to an extent, but there's also a "my shit doesn't stink" tendency among party loyalists to whitewash their own side's tactics and motivations while demonizing the other's.

[Razgovory]

No, he has a point.  Complaining about extremists on both sides is at best lazy at worst showing incredible susceptibility to demagoguery.  Demagogues do best when paint their opponents in a bad light.  Seeing everyone in a bad light does not mean you are some kind of enlightened cynic.  It means you are believe the demagogues of both sides to the degree that it has sapped you into inaction.

I agree with you to an extent, but there's also a "my shit doesn't stink" tendency among party loyalists to whitewash their own side's tactics and motivations while demonizing the other's.

True, but sometimes you have to pick a side and go in swinging. 

" So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

-Rev 3:16

[Eddie Teach]

True, but sometimes you have to pick a side and go in swinging. 

" So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

-Rev 3:16

Jesus says you picked the wrong side.

[Sheilbh]

I think you mean national debt, not deficit.  I also think you're a little confused on the relative magnitudes of stimulus and TARP.

I don't believe I'm wrong on the deficit (not debt).  My understanding is that the fiscal year 2009 goes from October to October for the Federal budget.  The overwhelming amount of new spending in the 2009 deficit came from the last period of Bush's Presidency (and he was right). 

Of the 3.5 trillion budget (and I think 1.4 somethingion deficit) Obama policies like cash for clunkers, CHIP expansion, the amount of the stimulus that has actually been spent thus far (remember that though the stimulus is 780 billion only 180 billion was projected to be spent in 2009, something like 300 billion will be spent in 2010 and then the rest in 2011) and that appropriations bill represents under 5% of the entire government spending in FY09.  The vast majority of new spending that has caused the deficit was buying out banks and Freddie and Fannie and TARP.  But a large part of the deficit was also the shortfall of tax receipts and the expansion of programmes that will, inevitably, expand in a recession such as food stamps and unemployment.

Edit:  On healthcare I love the headline on Gawker, care of Michael Tomasky: News of first major progressive legislation in 30 years enrages liberals

[Admiral Yi]

Interesting.  Where did you get the info on stimulus disbursements from?

[Fate]

 

It can be interpreted in oh so many ways...

[MadImmortalMan]

Edit:  On healthcare I love the headline on Gawker, care of Michael Tomasky: News of first major progressive legislation in 30 years enrages liberals

Actually, Bush's Medicare part D was the last major progressive legislation in 30 years. That didn't anger liberals nearly as much because we didn't expect anything from Bush but were happy to take whatever scraps could be managed. 

[Razgovory]

Edit:  On healthcare I love the headline on Gawker, care of Michael Tomasky: News of first major progressive legislation in 30 years enrages liberals

Actually, Bush's Medicare part D was the last major progressive legislation in 30 years. That didn't anger liberals nearly as much because we didn't expect anything from Bush but were happy to take whatever scraps could be managed. 

The AARP was pissed.

[MadImmortalMan]

Edit:  On healthcare I love the headline on Gawker, care of Michael Tomasky: News of first major progressive legislation in 30 years enrages liberals

Actually, Bush's Medicare part D was the last major progressive legislation in 30 years. That didn't anger liberals nearly as much because we didn't expect anything from Bush but were happy to take whatever scraps could be managed. 

The AARP was pissed.

Weren't they the ones who put out those "it's not perfect but it's better than nothing" sort of ads in favor of it? I know AARP runs their own Part D plans now. They can't hate it that much. I remember Paul Krugman hating it, but it had something to do with Bush, so everyone assumed he would.

[Razgovory]

They ended up feeling betrayed by the whole thing.

[Ed Anger]

Sheila reads Gawker? Awful. 

[dps]

Actually, Bush's Medicare part D was the last major progressive legislation in 30 years.

Well, that's 1 too many.

[Sheilbh]

Actually, Bush's Medicare part D was the last major progressive legislation in 30 years. That didn't anger liberals nearly as much because we didn't expect anything from Bush but were happy to take whatever scraps could be managed. 

I thought that just spent more money on something, whereas this is you know reform.  I always found that a deeply weird thing though.  Maybe Bush just loves the elderly

Sheila reads Gawker? Awful. 

No, I read Michael Tomasky