Dems kill vouchers in D.C.

[The Larch]

If there are so many possibilities, can you tell me for instance what's your local situation where you live?

Also, the WV systems sounds cool to me, I guess. How does it work? Are there any terrible pitfalls?

[alfred russel]

Also, the WV systems sounds cool to me,

[The Larch]

Also, the WV systems sounds cool to me,

[DGuller]

WV is the most backward state in US by almost any measure.  I'm sure even Louisiana and Mississippi mock it.

[The Larch]

WV is the most backward state in US by almost any measure.  I'm sure even Louisiana and Mississippi mock it.

Even in administrative planning?

[alfred russel]

Also, the WV systems sounds cool to me,

WV has the reputation as being one of the least educated states (not that you would have any reason to know that).

I actually don't know the situation where I live. I pay property taxes to everyone (state, city, county, and school taxes). Each entity sets their own, but I'm not sure about who sets the school taxes.

[The Larch]

Also, the WV systems sounds cool to me,

WV has the reputation as being one of the least educated states (not that you would have any reason to know that).

I actually don't know the situation where I live. I pay property taxes to everyone (state, city, county, and school taxes). Each entity sets their own, but I'm not sure about who sets the school taxes.

I knew WV is usually lumped in the backward bottom part of the states, but even a broken clock is right a couple of times per day. 

[dps]

If there are so many possibilities, can you tell me for instance what's your local situation where you live?

Also, the WV systems sounds cool to me, I guess. How does it work? Are there any terrible pitfalls?

Well, I think that structually, the system in WV is actually pretty good.  The biggest problem is that the people who run for positions on the school boards tend to be teachers, so the whole system is run for the benefit of the teachers, rather than for that of the students.  (Of course, I'm sure that if we had any teachers from WV who post here, they would dispute the notion that the system is run mostly for their benefit.)

Also, while having spending per pupil equalized among the counties may sound fair, I'm not entirely convinced that it's actually that great an idea.  For example, Randolph and Pocahontas counties are quite rural areas (especially Pocahontas county--there's a reason they put the National Radio Observatory there, and it's not just because Senator Byrd is so good at bringing home the pork) but very large in area.  So they probably spend a lot more per pupil on just transporting the students to and from school than other counties. which means that they are spending less per pupil on everything else.

[The Brain]

We have vouchers in Sweden.

[grumbler]

Then there's an even better measure to reduce inequality than vouchers, have school districts run at least at a county level, under a general state level. Works for the rest of the Western world.  Inequalities, even without dissapearing completely, are evend out quite nicely.

Nice theory, but that theory does not work in practice.  In Virginia, schools are "run... at a county level, under a general state level." Just like "the rest of the Western world.  "  However, it turns out that "inequalities" are not "evend [sic] out quite nicely," but rather persist in a fashion pretty much indistinguishable from states with city and country school systems.

The problem is not one of funding (although funding adds a lot to the problem).  The problem is due to three factor, IMO:
(1) Highly differential levels of parental and student involvement.  Students whose parents care about their education do much, much better than those whose parents don't, even if attending much less well-funded schools; students who perceive that education is something done for them, rather than to them, stay in school.
(2) Highly differentiated levels of teacher preparation, professionalism, and educational leadership.  American education is a highly bureaucratic system, with the highest levels dominated by local politics.  The school systems most in need of excellent leaders are the ones least able to attract them.  The most important position in the American educational system in terms of impact on quality is the school principal; principals are also the people least likely to be highly proficient at their jobs, because their selection is so tainted by politics.
(3) The "factory" model of education wherein students proceed down an 'assembly line" of courses over the years is poorly suited to the needs of modern education, and yet is being reinforced by such things as national educational policies (eg "No Child Left Alive" with its emphasis on the testing for mere recollection of facts).  Most education systems worldwide do this as well, but all that means is that most education systems worldwide do it wrong as well.

[Darth Wagtaros]

I'm in one of them.  I pay 64/month in dues and most of what I get back are e-mails asking me to donate to their PACs.

And why public workers rarely go on strike, though they do from time to time, in the US.  Why strike when PACs are so powerful?

They don't do much for us though.  There is a perception that they do, and in other states, like Cali, maybe they do. 

[DGuller]

(3) The "factory" model of education wherein students proceed down an 'assembly line" of courses over the years is poorly suited to the needs of modern education, and yet is being reinforced by such things as national educational policies (eg "No Child Left Alive" with its emphasis on the testing for mere recollection of facts).  Most education systems worldwide do this as well, but all that means is that most education systems worldwide do it wrong as well.

It's easy to criticize this, but is it easy to come up with something better and implement it system-wide?

[derspiess]

I knew WV is usually lumped in the backward bottom part of the states, but even a broken clock is right a couple of times per day. 

I went through the WV public school system, and don't really have too many positive things to say about it.  Probably the best thing I can say is that given the limited funding, it probably wasn't as bad as it could have been. 

Amount of $$ spent does not automatically bring results, as the Kansas City example shows: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html

[MadImmortalMan]

Vouchers in general IMO, are a flawed way to address the problem of some kids simply being forced to go to awful schools that will limit their opportunities. They're not great, but they're better than nothing.

[DGuller]

Vouchers in general IMO, are a flawed way to address the problem of some kids simply being forced to go to awful schools that will limit their opportunities. They're not great, but they're better than nothing.

Personally, it strikes me as a cop-out.  Instead of thinking hard about making schools work better, we're just letting the best students abandon it, leaving the public system even more gutted.

On the other hand, I'm not sure it's even a given that we should have a public school system.  Maybe giving vouchers to everyone would be a better idea.  I don't see any compelling non-statist reason why education has to be provided by the government.