Dems kill vouchers in D.C.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Fucking union

I have to say I am coming over to the perspective that the singular biggest problem in public policy in the United States is the Public Worker Unions.  Their political power is incredible and it puts a tremendous burden on our flexibility.  Public policy seems like it is done to further the interests of the public workers rather than the interests of the population...but I guess this is endemic of the whole political system where minority interests who are properly motivated and funded can have their way over the general welfare in almost every area of government.

I'm in one of them.  I pay 64/month in dues and most of what I get back are e-mails asking me to donate to their PACs.

[Valmy]

I'm in one of them.  I pay 64/month in dues and most of what I get back are e-mails asking me to donate to their PACs.

And why public workers rarely go on strike, though they do from time to time, in the US.  Why strike when PACs are so powerful?

[The Larch]

Then there's an even better measure to reduce inequality than vouchers, have school districts run at least at a county level, under a general state level. Works for the rest of the Western world.  Inequalities, even without dissapearing completely, are evend out quite nicely.

Too many people benefit from the system for it to be easily changed.  Further any sort of centralization of power will always be opposed by those who find that ideologically offensive.  That is a powerful political coalition right there.

So, what can "unlucky" school districts do about it, then?

[alfred russel]

Then there's an even better measure to reduce inequality than vouchers, have school districts run at least at a county level, under a general state level. Works for the rest of the Western world.  Inequalities, even without dissapearing completely, are evend out quite nicely.

I agree, but two comments: 1) in this specific case Washington DC is its own political unit--there isn't a larger group it can practically become a part of (I seriously doubt Maryland or Virginia want to absorb the DC public school system0, 2) a major selling point when buying a home is the school district. A lot of families that are located in a part of town with a good school are going to strongly object to changes. Also, local school boards are going to fight to keep control of their little fiefdoms.

[Valmy]

So, what can "unlucky" school districts do about it, then?

That question has been the primary focus of education reformers for over 100 years.  There is not much they can do but muddle on.

[alfred russel]

So, what can "unlucky" school districts do about it, then?

Two options: private school, or move to a better district. You don't buy a home in the US without taking into account the school district.

[Valmy]

Two options: private school, or move to a better district. You don't buy a home in the US without taking into account the school district.

Even if you do not and never plan on having children live with you, it is still the determining factor in how large your property taxes are going to be.

[DGuller]

Fucking union

I have to say I am coming over to the perspective that the singular biggest problem in public policy in the United States is the Public Worker Unions.  Their political power is incredible and it puts a tremendous burden on our flexibility.  Public policy seems like it is done to further the interests of the public workers rather than the interests of the population...but I guess this is endemic of the whole political system where minority interests who are properly motivated and funded can have their way over the general welfare in almost every area of government.

Agreed.  The problem with public unions is that they are so unbalanced.  In the private sector, unions can get hammered just by economic realities.  If they don't budge, then companies saddled with them just go out of business, and get replaced by companies without the union cancer.  There is no such pressure on the public unions, and they also get to face off against politicians rather than executives.

[The Larch]

So, what can "unlucky" school districts do about it, then?

Two options: private school, or move to a better district. You don't buy a home in the US without taking into account the school district.

I was thinking more about the district itself rather than people living on it. I mean, over here where you live also counts towards where you'll probably end up studying in the public system, as living close to the school counts heavily towards elegibility, but it's nothing as radical as the US' case.

[alfred russel]

So, what can "unlucky" school districts do about it, then?

Two options: private school, or move to a better district. You don't buy a home in the US without taking into account the school district.

I was thinking more about the district itself rather than people living on it. I mean, over here where you live also counts towards where you'll probably end up studying in the public system, as living close to the school counts heavily towards elegibility, but it's nothing as radical as the US' case.

You probably can't talk about this issue in the US for very long without coming back to segregation. As a legal reality it may have ended a 40 years ago, but our housing is still very segregated, with pockets of high poverty, functional illiteracy and crime. People don't want their kids going into those schools, and don't want those kids coming into their schools.

[The Larch]

Another question, how are school districts formed? I mean, how is it decided that street or neighbourhood X belongs to this or that school district. About the property taxes issue, who decides them? The district? The city? The county? The state?

[The Larch]

So, what can "unlucky" school districts do about it, then?

Two options: private school, or move to a better district. You don't buy a home in the US without taking into account the school district.

I was thinking more about the district itself rather than people living on it. I mean, over here where you live also counts towards where you'll probably end up studying in the public system, as living close to the school counts heavily towards elegibility, but it's nothing as radical as the US' case.

You probably can't talk about this issue in the US for very long without coming back to segregation. As a legal reality it may have ended a 40 years ago, but our housing is still very segregated, with pockets of high poverty, functional illiteracy and crime. People don't want their kids going into those schools, and don't want those kids coming into their schools.

I know about that, I'm watching The Wire. Funnily enough, the 4th season, the one I'm watching right now, deals with the issue of education in an inner city middle school.

[dps]

Personally, I'd have no issue with it, each place governs itself as it sees more fit, but this system seems to me like a breeding ground for inequality.

It is a breeding ground for inequality.  The quality of education varies wildly from district to district.  That has alot to do with how seriously the local community takes education and/or how many resources they have at their disposal versus the number of children to be educated.  The kids are thus the victims/beneficiaries of tons of factors outside of their control but I guess that is true for almost every factor in their lives.

Anyway our political system has always been very decentralized due to the colonial way the entire country was settled.  The school system is one of the most extreme examples though the feds and the states have gotten more and more involved over the years.

Then there's an even better measure to reduce inequality than vouchers, have school districts run at least at a county level, under a general state level. Works for the rest of the Western world.  Inequalities, even without dissapearing completely, are evend out quite nicely.

That's essentially how it's done in WV.  Individual, local schools don't have their own board or any autonomy;  they are governed by the county school board of the county in which they are located.  And the state school board oversees the county boards, sets general policies, and can, in certain circumstances, suspend the authority of a county board and take over its functions.  Also, funding is equalized among the counties.

[dps]

Another question, how are school districts formed? I mean, how is it decided that street or neighbourhood X belongs to this or that school district. About the property taxes issue, who decides them? The district? The city? The county? The state?

Basically, there are 50 different answers to each of those questions.

[alfred russel]

Another question, how are school districts formed? I mean, how is it decided that street or neighbourhood X belongs to this or that school district. About the property taxes issue, who decides them? The district? The city? The county? The state?

All of the above, though not in every state. For purposes of education, it is almost as though we are 50 countries rather than 1.