Could you speak in your homeland if you went back to 1300AD?

[PDH]

I imagine, like Sheilbh said, the Great Bowel Shit led to a lot of changes.

[Sheilbh]

You can actually read Old English right?

Yeah.  Though I'm out of practice.

[Martim Silva]

Just to say the examples of Middle English from the Crichton book don't look like convincing Middle English to me - which isn't to say much but I wouldn't put too much faith in them.

Edit:  And for the English speakers 1300 was before the Great Vowel Shift which would significantly impact our language.  I added this just because I love the phrase 'Great Vowel Shift'.  It sounds like tectonic Countdown.

You have a point, though as he clearly got aid from historians, the guesses there are as good as any.

How deep was the Vowel Shift? We also had some vowel changes in Portugal, but in reality these only had limited effects in prounciation (especially the 'u' and 'v', which today are spoken quite differently, but which in the Middle Ages were very similar - 'ouuirem' instead of 'ouvirem', for example).

What do you mean by that? For me, Mirandês is not a dialect of Galaico-Portuguese, it is a dialect of Astur-Leonese. I get most of it, of course, since it is an influence in the local dialect.

Mirandês is not considered a dialect at all in Portugal, but as a language in its own right.. The second official language of the country, in fact. In Spain it is seen as an asturian dialect, but not here.

http://pglingua.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=920:o-mirandes-segunda-lingua-oficial-de-portugal-desde-ha-dez-anos&catid=5:babel&Itemid=68

More details here:

http://mirandes.no.sapo.pt/BEestudos2.html

For me Galician is a dialect of (Northern) Portuguese It has been castillanised though...

Castillanised? Where?

Here, a gallician forum - everybody is writing in galician. If you would be so kind as to show me the castillian influences... 'cos I can't find them.

http://www.forum-gallaecia.net/

I suppose one could call it a 'dialect', but to be honest the differences are so small that I suspect that Galicians would be considered portuguese speakers if their region was Portuguese instead of Spanish.

Heck, I have more problems with Azorians (who are Portuguese and who are supposed to speak our language, but which actually once expressly required a translator to understand what I was saying) than with Galicians.

Occitan is sometimes used as a synonym for Langue d'Oc, not always though. As for me, French comes naturally but yeah, the lh/nh thing comes to mind, even more now that you mention it. Hell, it even ended in Vietnamese (nh)...

Paris and everybody north of the Loire.

First, it is Lenga d'Òc, not Langue d'Oc - the frenchified version is an attempt by Paris to confuse people into thinking this language is just another version of French. It even had me fooled until I actually read/heard it.

(the dialect spoken in the Tolosa area is referred to as "lengadocian", from the region of "Lengadoc" and part of the general "Lengadocià" [which is not the same as the whole of Occitania], in order to avoid confusion)

Lenga d'Òc is used as an equivalent to Occitan, though the designation of "Occitan" is more common.

And the Langue d'Oil is not of "everybody North of the Loire"... ever heard Walloonian? It was not subject to Parisian rule for most of the time, so their language was not brought to heel, keeping to its older traditions. Which is why Portuguese immigrants to the area find it far easier to learn than French.

Sure, Paris loves to say that French is spoken there, but its just more misleading info.

Here, a Walloon forum, where everybody is writting in their language:

http://berdelaedje.walon.org/

An example:

Walon'rèye (e Feller) est eployî dins tot l' payis d' Lidje. C' est ene sorwalonde. Mins pol Walon(r)eye on pout eployî les deus, c' est on dobe rifondaedje, k' i m' shonne.

Dji pinse ki dins l' Wikipedia c' est Walonreye paski les djins k' ont scrît les pådjes el dijhnut. Gn a pont d' rîle. Po des djins c' est pus "walon" come mot.

Gn årè todi des diferinnès voyes emey les rfondeus...

This other language is certainly not French. They are related, but certainly are not one and the same.

As for Occitan, there is a -somewhat limited- revival in the South. In Toulouse, streets names are bilingual, for what it's worth... Catalan, gotmother tongue?  It is too close to French for me.

The "revival", marked by the increase in Occitan schools (called Calandretas) is done with no support from Paris, which insists that Occitan is just a patois of French.

Occitan is our (Portuguese) Godmother tongue. And the reason why we put some words in parts of the sentences that are different from their Castillian/Leonese counterparts. The reason why we have "filhos" and not "hijos", or why we have "Pai" and "Mãe" and not "Padre" and "Madre", just to give some examples.

Catalan was once part of Occitan, but is now autonomized into a separate (but very similar) language.

The only exception is in the Val d'Aran, were the local speech (Aranese) is a Occitan dialect. Note that Iormlund (who can't get French) notes that he can understand Aranese.

And Catalan is close to French? 

You never heard the language in your life, have you? You really need to come down to Catalonia and say that - people are in need of a good, long, laugh.

Here, a forum in Catalan:

http://www.fobiasocial.net/forum-general-en-catala/

Example of a post:

Apart del tema lingüistic/cultural/polític i tot plegat... que ja cansa...

Com a fòbic social em fa sentir molt malament parlar amb català i que no m'entenguin. sobretot quan em contesten un "què?" amenaçador, com si fós un criminal, o amb les autoritats.

o al revés, perquè quan ens contesten o comencen a parlar en castellà, passem a parlar-lo en la conversa, quan ells no ho fan quasi mai?

És un tema que em fa sentir molt incòmode desde que estudio a Barcelona, i és que mai l'havia tingut que parlar, el castellà, fins que no vaig començar els estudis universitaris.

Clearly "too close to French"... NOT.

Btw, for all those interested, here is a catalonian tv report about videogame consoles.

Everybody who speaks French is invited to watch, in order to witness the "closeness" of Catalan with the language of Rosseau :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1myWqqFSw8

Question: can one embed YouTube videos in Languish? That would be better than just giving the links...

[Sheilbh]

How deep was the Vowel Shift? We also had some vowel changes in Portugal, but in reality these only had limited effects in prounciation (especially the 'u' and 'v', which today are spoken quite differently, but which in the Middle Ages were very similar - 'ouuirem' instead of 'ouvirem', for example).

The Great Vowel Shift is more to do with pronunciation.  It's another reason why English has odd spelling.  It was largely a Southern event - some Northern and Scottish accents have pre-GVS pronunciation.  I believe though that it is largest example in a major language.  I believe some other Germanic languages experienced a vowel shift but the English one is massive every single vowel changes, we used to have long vowels which were more or less wiped out and became dipthongs and so on.  It's a major linguistic change and one that's named in a charmingly dramatic way.

[ulmont]

The Great Vowel Shift is more to do with pronunciation.  It's another reason why English has odd spelling.

Apparently vowel shifts are still going on in the US now, although not necessarily as large as the GVS:

The short vowels in English, pit, pet, pat, have been standing still for a thousand years, while the long vowels did their merry chase. It's called the great vowel shift. But long about 1950, the short vowels in Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester, began to move. It's called the northern city shift.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5220090

[Martim Silva]

The Great Vowel Shift is more to do with pronunciation.  It's another reason why English has odd spelling.  It was largely a Southern event - some Northern and Scottish accents have pre-GVS pronunciation.  I believe though that it is largest example in a major language.  I believe some other Germanic languages experienced a vowel shift but the English one is massive every single vowel changes, we used to have long vowels which were more or less wiped out and became dipthongs and so on.  It's a major linguistic change and one that's named in a charmingly dramatic way.

I think I know what you mean. My Scottish relatives speak many vowels differently from the English way (Like 'coat', for example. They say 'coot' with a strong emphasis on the oo's. The 'A's are also deeper than the high-pitched English versions).

But I remember it took me a grand total of one minute to get used to/use in conversation the Scottish vowels instead of the English ones, so maybe the adaptation may not be as sysmic as that to a native English speaker.

Besides, as you know well, most medieval texts were made to be read aloud, not merely read, with the writer making putting every effort possible into making the word sound like the ones they heard, so we get good clues by comparing similar words in texts from different writers of the same period and place.

That put, the "twoplusgoodcold" interpretation by Yi of "chillingcold" worries me, especially because Americans have many different accents. I wish I could hear how you people read the English quotes, really.

As for other Germanic languages, maybe Syt can help.

Syt, could you tell us, using the "Were diu werlt alle min" poem, if the vowels could/were spoken differently than from modern German?

Were diu werlt alle min
von deme mere unze an den Rin
des wolt ih mih darben,
daz diu chunegin von Engellant
lege an minen armen.

[syk]

Were diu werlt alle min
von deme mere unze an den Rin
des wolt ih mih darben,
daz diu chunegin von Engellant
lege an minen armen.

Wäre die Welt all mein
von dem Meere bis an den Rhein
des wollt ich mich darben,
dass die Königin von England
läge in meinen Armen.

There are only minimal differences between ä and e, at least in Northern Germany. Southerners would disagree.
The single I in min and Rin possibly would be pronounced like the English I here. The modernized version has mein and Rhein instead. ih mih became ich mich. chunegin is Königin now. The u at the end of diu has become an e which is there to indicate a long i sound nowadays. Maybe the u served the same purpose.

[jimmy olsen]

That put, the "twoplusgoodcold" interpretation by Yi of "chillingcold" worries me, especially because Americans have many different accents. I wish I could hear how you people read the English quotes, really.

That's just an Orwellian way of saying very cold. He understood it.

[Duque de Bragança]

Mirandês is not considered a dialect at all in Portugal, but as a language in its own right.. The second official language of the country, in fact. In Spain it is seen as an asturian dialect, but not here.

It was very recently recognised as a language though. Most Lisboetes don't know that, for instance. But then, for them, everything from Coimbra northward is Terra incognita

http://pglingua.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=920:o-mirandes-segunda-lingua-oficial-de-portugal-desde-ha-dez-anos&catid=5:babel&Itemid=68

More details here:

http://mirandes.no.sapo.pt/BEestudos2.html

Castillanised? Where?

Here, a gallician forum - everybody is writing in galician. If you would be so kind as to show me the castillian influences... 'cos I can't find them.

http://www.forum-gallaecia.net/

Not that forum indeed but I'm not sure The Larch uses that spelling.

I suppose one could call it a 'dialect', but to be honest the differences are so small that I suspect that Galicians would be considered portuguese speakers if their region was Portuguese instead of Spanish.

Heck, I have more problems with Azorians (who are Portuguese and who are supposed to speak our language, but which actually once expressly required a translator to understand what I was saying) than with Galicians.

Impressive for a Lisboete I think you are a bit harsh on the Azorians though
Madrid and some Galicians claim Galician is now a separate language from Portuguese. Like Catalonian and Valencian

First, it is Lenga d'Òc, not Langue d'Oc - the frenchified version is an attempt by Paris to confuse people into thinking this language is just another version of French. It even had me fooled until I actually read/heard it.

You are reading a bit too much on a technicality. If it says Langue, it's not a mere patois cf. the opposition Langue d'Oc/Langue d'Oïl.

(the dialect spoken in the Tolosa area is referred to as "lengadocian", from the region of "Lengadoc" and part of the general "Lengadocià" [which is not the same as the whole of Occitania], in order to avoid confusion)

Lenga d'Òc is used as an equivalent to Occitan, though the designation of "Occitan" is more common.

And the Langue d'Oil is not of "everybody North of the Loire"... ever heard Walloonian? It was not subject to Parisian rule for most of the time, so their language was not brought to heel, keeping to its older traditions. Which is why Portuguese immigrants to the area find it far easier to learn than French.

I referred only to France in my North of the Loire (excluding the Bretons, Flemish and Alsatians).
I heard a Walloon speaking "French" from Liège and it was awful  Not even the dialect, just his accent was enough to remind me of the old "Belgian jokes" in France.

Sure, Paris loves to say that French is spoken there, but its just more misleading info.

Here, a Walloon forum, where everybody is writting in their language:

http://berdelaedje.walon.org/

An example:

Walon'rèye (e Feller) est eployî dins tot l' payis d' Lidje. C' est ene sorwalonde. Mins pol Walon(r)eye on pout eployî les deus, c' est on dobe rifondaedje, k' i m' shonne.

Dji pinse ki dins l' Wikipedia c' est Walonreye paski les djins k' ont scrît les pådjes el dijhnut. Gn a pont d' rîle. Po des djins c' est pus "walon" come mot.

Gn årè todi des diferinnès voyes emey les rfondeus...

This other language is certainly not French. They are related, but certainly are not one and the same.

Sounds like ch'ti, the dialect in Northern France or Ch'nord Not all Wallonia has that dialect anymore.

The "revival", marked by the increase in Occitan schools (called Calandretas) is done with no support from Paris, which insists that Occitan is just a patois of French.

"Patois" has a somewhat derogatory meaning. Do you mean dialect or even different but closely related language? The Jacobins (left) love to do that and they are not only from Paris.
Sarkozy recently changed the French constitution regarding minority languages so it's getting better. # Article 75-1 : nouvel article

    * « Les langues régionales appartiennent au patrimoine de la France ».

Occitan is our (Portuguese) Godmother tongue. And the reason why we put some words in parts of the sentences that are different from their Castillian/Leonese counterparts. The reason why we have "filhos" and not "hijos", or why we have "Pai" and "Mãe" and not "Padre" and "Madre", just to give some examples.

Castillan in the Middle Ages was closer to Galaico-Portuguese than it is now with forms such as fijos and no "geada" though.

Catalan was once part of Occitan, but is now autonomized into a separate (but very similar) language.

The only exception is in the Val d'Aran, were the local speech (Aranese) is a Occitan dialect. Note that Iormlund (who can't get French) notes that he can understand Aranese.

And Catalan is close to French? 

You never heard the language in your life, have you? You really need to come down to Catalonia and say that - people are in need of a good, long, laugh.

Here, a forum in Catalan:

http://www.fobiasocial.net/forum-general-en-catala/

Example of a post:

Apart del tema lingüistic/cultural/polític i tot plegat... que ja cansa...

Com a fòbic social em fa sentir molt malament parlar amb català i que no m'entenguin. sobretot quan em contesten un "què?" amenaçador, com si fós un criminal, o amb les autoritats.

o al revés, perquè quan ens contesten o comencen a parlar en castellà, passem a parlar-lo en la conversa, quan ells no ho fan quasi mai?

És un tema que em fa sentir molt incòmode desde que estudio a Barcelona, i és que mai l'havia tingut que parlar, el castellà, fins que no vaig començar els estudis universitaris.

Clearly "too close to French"... NOT.

Btw, for all those interested, here is a catalonian tv report about videogame consoles.

Everybody who speaks French is invited to watch, in order to witness the "closeness" of Catalan with the language of Rousseau :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1myWqqFSw8

Question: can one embed YouTube videos in Languish? That would be better than just giving the links...

Better say that than trying to speak Castillan there See the spelling of Catalan and compare to French, don't you get something? "Velocitat del VENT" for instance. They've got the cedilla, too.
As for the pronunciation, yes OBVIOUSLY it's not like Paris-Tours French but I thought you understood my implicit reference to (relative) closeness. The (Southern) French/Occitan link is what separates Catalan from, say, Castillan, If you will.

[Razgovory]

I am not too sure I could understand old French, if I was moved to Paris at the time of the 100 years War.  Understanding modern French people is hard enough, I can't imagine their ancestors...

More importantly whose side would you have been during the Revolt of the Jacquerie?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquerie

King.  He won.

[Martinus]

I am not too sure I could understand old French, if I was moved to Paris at the time of the 100 years War.  Understanding modern French people is hard enough, I can't imagine their ancestors...

More importantly whose side would you have been during the Revolt of the Jacquerie?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquerie

I once played a game of Vampire: Dark Ages as Brujah vampire embraced during the Jacquerie.