Dems going to get a new nominating process?

[sbr]

Ok my bad.  You are right that not many candidates have focused on the caucus states outside of Iowa, but every candidate that has taken the election seriously has focused on Iowa and New Hampshire.

[DGuller]

Wasn't Clinton an also-ran in Iowa?

[stjaba]

Wasn't Clinton an also-ran in Iowa?

Yeah, I think she may have even lost to Edwards. But she pulled out a big upset in New Hampshire, which IIRC, caused the intrade market to briefly predict her victory over Obama for the eventual nomination. At that point, probably 1% of the delegates had been decided, but everyone was conditioned due to previous campaigns to into believing that winning New Hampshire was a big deal.

[DGuller]

Sorry, wrong Clinton.  I mean the original one, in 1992.

[stjaba]

Sorry, wrong Clinton.  I mean the original one, in 1992.

Yeah except that year Iowa had a favorite son candidate, so every Dem ignored IOWA, and the big race was New Hampshire, which Clinton actually lost, but he did well enough to exceed expectations, so really won in the eyes of the media. Presidential nomination campaigns are strange like that.

[Sheilbh]

Sorry, wrong Clinton.  I mean the original one, in 1992.

Bill Clinton ignored Iowa because Harkin was running and he doesn't like caucases.  He advised Hillary to ignore Iowa, she chose not to follow his advice.  In terms of election what-ifs I think it's a big one if she'd just not competed in Iowa.  Obama wouldn't have got much momentum from Iowa and Clinton still probably would have won New Hampshire which could have changed things.

[Admiral Yi]

Ok my bad.  You are right that not many candidates have focused on the caucus states outside of Iowa, but every candidate that has taken the election seriously has focused on Iowa and New Hampshire.

I know this is a discussion about the Democratic primary, but McCain wrote off Iowa.  Iowa doesn't annoint winners, it weeds out also-rans.

[ulmont]

I think we should scrap the superdelegate thing entirely. It sucks.

As a vehicle to get elected officials to show up to the convention, it's not bad.  It's an extremely aberrant race when they could change the outcome, and even more aberrant when they do (I don't think this has ever happened).

As long as television cameras are at the conventions, the politicians will be there.

The flip side is that no one wants to have to run for election as a convention delegate...against their congressman (or state legislator, or mayor, or whatever).  Absent superdelegate procedures, though, that's often what's going to happen if those people want to go to the convention.

[alfred russel]

Caucuses without secret ballots are a problem, especially in the party with most of the labor union support.

[DGuller]

Caucuses without secret ballots are a problem, especially in the party with most of the labor union support.

I never thought about it, but it's a very good point once you mentioned it.

[MadImmortalMan]

Caucuses without secret ballots are a problem, especially in the party with most of the labor union support.

I never thought about it, but it's a very good point once you mentioned it.

The last time around it was a fucking circus. I had to vote by going over and standing with the group representing the candidate I wanted to support. Everybody for Barack, this side of the room. Everybody for Hillary, that side. The six people supporting Edwards, you stand in the middle of the room so both sides can hound you mercilessly. People are not polite.

[Fate]

Forcing Edwards voters to accept a realistic candidate isn't a negative quality of the caucus system.

[Admiral Yi]

Forcing Edwards voters to accept a realistic candidate isn't a negative quality of the caucus system.

That's built into the process.  Which realistic candidate they flip to is the part MIM is talking about.

[DGuller]

It's one thing to be heckled and persuaded unpolitely to switch camp.  It's another thing when there is an entity watching over the process that can organize a harassment against those who vote the wrong way.