Continued Appeal of High Fantasy?

[Queequeg]

Last weekend I went from playing the Russian 14th Century mod for Mount & Blade to Dragon Age, and during the transition something hit me pretty hard.

Even to me, the Russian armor and buildings, even the people, looked far more foreign and exotic than anything in Dragon Age.  The huge, tall Russian helmets, the lamellar Mongol armor, and enough colors in a battle to make your average gay rave seem like people going to Mormon temple, while almost every people or city in Dragon Age has some kind of direct equivalent in the Lord of the Rings, Warhammer, Faerun or Greyhawk.  I've been exposed to High Fantasy so much that I expect that if I were to one day somehow encounter a Tolkeinesque Dwarf, or a Faerun Elf, I'd be surprised but would probably know the basics of their culture and looks even.

I don't think that is true of the vast majority of historical settings, or alternative fantasy settings.  One of the reasons I loved Jade Empire so much was that it managed to make Fantasy feel exotic again.  During my first play through Jade Empire, at about 3-4 am, while I was kind of stoned, I ran into the realm of the Fox Spirit, and was just dumbstruck by the entire level.  I had a furry-hot Spirit Fox talking to me about celestial balance, with a Demon Elephant protecting her.

I don't think this just applies to dark fantasy either.  The Darkspawn are basically Orks-Goblins, even more faithfully than in D&D due to their diversity of forms, like in Tolkien. It is hard to be spooked by the evil they pose, because everyone here has probably killed thousands of orcs already, or and probably seen or read about tens of thousands killed.   All the blood, the evil magic, it is far too cliche to be interesting, let alone threatening. 

Let's imagine an RPG set in a semi-mythologized ancient Middle-East.  You have Assyrians throwing babies off of walls, the Egyptians sealing live servants into Pyramids, Phoenicians throwing their first born sons in to the gaping mouths of their God,  and further abroad you have cults of head hunters, cannibals....these were some truly terrifying people.  And next-to-nothing has ever been done about them.  And when BioWare produced a MASTERPIECE set in a fantasy version of China, it just didn't sell. 

So why do people still consistently choose High Fantasy?  I think what was neat and exotic about Tolkien's world has become, weirdly, far more cliched than anything Tolkien was working with.  Weirdly, I found the world of Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, with its Faeries and screaming stones, far more interesting and less cliched than anything involving Elves and Orcs. 

[garbon]

Because we aren't all like you.

[Queequeg]

Because we aren't all like you.

Fae voiced IIRC almost the exact same opinion in the Dragon Age thread, and the No Punctuation review spent most of its time bitching about pseudo-Tolkienisms. 

[garbon]

I say that we aren't all like you and you come back to me with less than a handful of examples?

Anyway, I'm not trying to be flippant. It's just the truth. High fantasy is comforting in its traditionality. I don't read fantasy because I want to experience the exotic and unknown.

[Josquius]

I find it odd that the Chinese don't have much in the way of fantasy themselves.
They have lots of fantasy movies sure, but these are all pseudo-historical, pseudo-mythilogical. Not out and out fantasy. The likes of Hero and Flying Daggers are all set in a fictional version of history, more Robin Hood or King Arthur than LOTR.

The Japanese of course do a lot of fantasy. Much of it is western themeed but a lot of it is weird. The trouble is...its just too alien. All these mythilogical creatures that the creators take for advantage that the audience will know their usual attributes. Different creatures to those we have in the west.
But then...how on earth do we have the 'standard' stock fantasy troll so different to our mythilogical troll?

[Queequeg]

The line between "out-and-out" fantasy and history-based Fantasy is fantastically thin, near-non existent.  Tolkien clearly drew on European history, and Dragon Age draws even more clearly on it. I don't think there is that great of a distinction. 

[garbon]

Jos, really? The Chinese have many mythical creatures. A common one is the dragon...

[Josquius]

Jos, really? The Chinese have many mythical creatures. A common one is the dragon...

I said nothing about that, they no doubt do (though I bet much of it was frowned up strongly until recently). They don't make fantasy out of their mythology though. They stay in fairly realistic history (albeit with super human feats)

[ulmont]

I don't read fantasy because I want to experience the exotic and unknown.

There's something more than a little odd about this statement, unless you come into contact with magic and elves and whatnot on a regular basis.

I mean, that might explain why you keep reading fantasy now, but then why did you ever start?

[Ed Anger]

Lightning bolt!

[Martinus]

I wouldn't classify Dragon Age as high fantasy. It's no Forgotten Realms.

[Ed Anger]

Speaking of your Dragon Age game, World net Daily has noticed the gay in it.

[Faeelin]

And when BioWare produced a MASTERPIECE set in a fantasy version of China, it just didn't sell. 

Humm, it didn't sell? How dissapointing.

I'm tempted to start condescending about how geeks are just sheep, but I don't know.

[Jacob]

I find it odd that the Chinese don't have much in the way of fantasy themselves.
They have lots of fantasy movies sure, but these are all pseudo-historical, pseudo-mythilogical. Not out and out fantasy. The likes of Hero and Flying Daggers are all set in a fictional version of history, more Robin Hood or King Arthur than LOTR.

Warrior and the Wolf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi1KDTXcmu0

Painted Skin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lr7mg_0PQc&feature=PlayList&p=AB0081BC3ACF8A28&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=4

Both seem pretty fantasy to me but I guess it's not entirely divorced from a historical context.  I do think that's happening due to the influence of Western fantasy.  Dragon Oath ( http://do.us.changyou.com/new/2009110602.shtml ) is clearly Chinese in origin but quite divorced from anything historical.

[Jacob]

But I agree - people like high fantasy because it's comforting.  It speaks to a few core beliefs that people like to see (special people have special magic powers and are destined to succeed, evil is relatively easy to identify and gets its comeuppance in the end).  Enough modern assumptions are kept which, combined with the reuse of tropes, motifs, monsters and so on makes it very easy to get into new work once you're into the genre.