Sensitive Documents Lifted from Hadley Climate Center

Started by Tamas, November 21, 2009, 07:57:42 AM

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katmai

Oh Shel, not like Hans is going to start paying attention to facts now.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son

grumbler

Quote from: Sheilbh on November 21, 2009, 05:12:42 PM
Again the Hadley Centre and the University of East Anglia's CRU are totally separate bodies :mellow:
Sorry, but I have to choose to believe you or believe PowerLine, and they have posted actual analysis featuring actual quote-mining and unwarranted assumptions.  All you have is the university's web site.  Since PowerLine believes in their cause enough to be highly partisan hacks on the issue, they must be correct.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

DontSayBanana

Quote from: Hansmeister on November 21, 2009, 04:50:00 PM
Here is a short summary of all the questionable stuff so far, the list will surely grow as people pour through more and more of this:

Quote<snip bullshit list of "facts">

Nothing to see here, move along.  :lmfao:

The problem is you don't have facts, you have interpretations.  Your list is bullshit until it's corroborated.
Experience bij!

jimmy olsen

Quote from: DontSayBanana on November 21, 2009, 11:32:19 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on November 21, 2009, 04:50:00 PM
Here is a short summary of all the questionable stuff so far, the list will surely grow as people pour through more and more of this:

Quote<snip bullshit list of "facts">

Nothing to see here, move along.  :lmfao:

The problem is you don't have facts, you have interpretations.  Your list is bullshit until it's corroborated.

A valid point, but if there really is malfeasance on their part, why would they corroborate it?
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

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Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
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DontSayBanana

Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 22, 2009, 12:05:26 AM
A valid point, but if there really is malfeasance on their part, why would they corroborate it?

Sheer idiocy.  Anyway, I'm just pointing out that Hans is jumping the gun yet again.
Experience bij!

derspiess

I guess it is funny sometimes to see how some people react to their religious views being questioned :)
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Neil

Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2009, 01:46:34 PM
I guess it is funny sometimes to see how some people react to their religious views being questioned :)
Indeed.  And that's why I don't think that this is particularily serious or interesting.  A bunch of climatologists talking shit about other folks, along with some talk about data sets.  Who cares?
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

saskganesh

Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2009, 01:46:34 PM
I guess it is funny sometimes to see how some people react to their religious views being questioned :)

I think it's funny when people get confused about what religion is and what it is not.
humans were created in their own image

derspiess

Quote from: saskganesh on November 22, 2009, 02:23:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2009, 01:46:34 PM
I guess it is funny sometimes to see how some people react to their religious views being questioned :)

I think it's funny when people get confused about what religion is and what it is not.

I call 'em as I sees 'em.  Environmentalism (Global Warming in particular) has become a religion for many people these days. 
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Neil

Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2009, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on November 22, 2009, 02:23:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2009, 01:46:34 PM
I guess it is funny sometimes to see how some people react to their religious views being questioned :)
I think it's funny when people get confused about what religion is and what it is not.
I call 'em as I sees 'em.  Environmentalism (Global Warming in particular) has become a religion for many people these days.
Without a doubt.  But not for the people who wrote these emails.  These aren't a bunch of ignorant Greenpeace assholes.  These are the guys who understand the science.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Razgovory

Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2009, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on November 22, 2009, 02:23:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2009, 01:46:34 PM
I guess it is funny sometimes to see how some people react to their religious views being questioned :)

I think it's funny when people get confused about what religion is and what it is not.

I call 'em as I sees 'em.  Environmentalism (Global Warming in particular) has become a religion for many people these days.


And a Conspiracy theory amongst others.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

grumbler

Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2009, 02:30:42 PM
I call 'em as I sees 'em.  Environmentalism (Global Warming in particular) has become a religion for many people these days.
One of many religions.  Football, television, the movies, music, the internet, Languish... pretty much everything has turned into a religion for somebody.  That environmentalism has as well isn't surprising at all.  Anti-environmentalism is a religion for some people.  Hell, anti-religion-ism is a religion for some people on Languish!  :lol:
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Tamas

QuoteNovember 24, 2009 11:40 AM
Congress May Probe Leaked Global Warming E-Mails

A few days after leaked e-mail messages appeared on the Internet, the U.S. Congress may probe whether prominent scientists who are advocates of global warming theories misrepresented the truth about climate change.

Sen. James Inhofe, an Oklahoma Republican, said on Monday the leaked correspondence suggested researchers "cooked the science to make this thing look as if the science was settled, when all the time of course we knew it was not," according to a transcript of a radio interview posted on his Web site. Aides for Rep. Darrell Issa, a California Republican, are also looking into the disclosure.

The leaked documents (see our previous coverage) come from the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia in eastern England. In global warming circles, the CRU wields outsize influence: it claims the world's largest temperature data set, and its work and mathematical models were incorporated into the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's 2007 report. That report, in turn, is what the Environmental Protection Agency acknowledged it "relies on most heavily" when concluding that carbon dioxide emissions endanger public health and should be regulated.

Last week's leaked e-mails range from innocuous to embarrassing and, critics believe, scandalous. They show that some of the field's most prominent scientists were so wedded to theories of man-made global warming that they ridiculed dissenters who asked for copies of their data ("have to respond to more crap criticisms from the idiots"), cheered the deaths of skeptical journalists, and plotted how to keep researchers who reached different conclusions from publishing in peer-reviewed journals.

One e-mail message, apparently from CRU director Phil Jones, references the U.K.'s Freedom of Information Act when asking another researcher to delete correspondence that might be disclosed in response to public records law: "Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? Keith will do likewise." Another, also apparently from Jones: global warming skeptics "have been after the CRU station data for years. If they ever hear there is a Freedom of Information Act now in the UK, I think I'll delete the file rather than send to anyone." (Jones was a contributing author to the chapter of the U.N.'s IPCC report titled "Detection of Climate Change and Attribution of Causes.")[

In addition to e-mail messages, the roughly 3,600 leaked documents posted on sites including Wikileaks.org and EastAngliaEmails.com include computer code and a description of how an unfortunate programmer named "Harry" -- possibly the CRU's Ian "Harry" Harris -- was tasked with resuscitating and updating a key temperature database that proved to be problematic. Some excerpts from what appear to be his notes, emphasis added:

"I am seriously worried that our flagship gridded data product is produced by Delaunay triangulation - apparently linear as well. As far as I can see, this renders the station counts totally meaningless. It also means that we cannot say exactly how the gridded data is arrived at from a statistical perspective - since we're using an off-the-shelf product that isn't documented sufficiently to say that. Why this wasn't coded up in Fortran I don't know - time pressures perhaps? Was too much effort expended on homogenisation, that there wasn't enough time to write a gridding procedure? Of course, it's too late for me to fix it too. Meh.

I am very sorry to report that the rest of the databases seem to be in nearly as poor a state as Australia was. There are hundreds if not thousands of pairs of dummy stations, one with no WMO and one with, usually overlapping and with the same station name and very similar coordinates. I know it could be old and new stations, but why such large overlaps if that's the case? Aarrggghhh! There truly is no end in sight... So, we can have a proper result, but only by including a load of garbage!

One thing that's unsettling is that many of the assigned WMo codes for Canadian stations do not return any hits with a web search. Usually the country's met office, or at least the Weather Underground, show up – but for these stations, nothing at all. Makes me wonder if these are long-discontinued, or were even invented somewhere other than Canada!

Knowing how long it takes to debug this suite - the experiment endeth here. The option (like all the anomdtb options) is totally undocumented so we'll never know what we lost. 22. Right, time to stop pussyfooting around the niceties of Tim's labyrinthine software suites - let's have a go at producing CRU TS 3.0! since failing to do that will be the definitive failure of the entire project.

Ulp! I am seriously close to giving up, again. The history of this is so complex that I can't get far enough into it before by head hurts and I have to stop. Each parameter has a tortuous history of manual and semi-automated interventions that I simply cannot just go back to early versions and run the update prog. I could be throwing away all kinds of corrections - to lat/lons, to WMOs (yes!), and more. So what the hell can I do about all these duplicate stations?... "

As the leaked messages, and especially the HARRY_READ_ME.txt file, found their way around technical circles, two things happened: first, programmers unaffiliated with East Anglia started taking a close look at the quality of the CRU's code, and second, they began to feel sympathetic for anyone who had to spend three years (including working weekends) trying to make sense of code that appeared to be undocumented and buggy, while representing the core of CRU's climate model.

One programmer highlighted the error of relying on computer code that, if it generates an error message, continues as if nothing untoward ever occurred. Another debugged the code by pointing out why the output of a calculation that should always generate a positive number was incorrectly generating a negative one. A third concluded: "I feel for this guy. He's obviously spent years trying to get data from undocumented and completely messy sources."

Programmer-written comments inserted into CRU's Fortran code have drawn fire as well. The file briffa_sep98_d.pro says: "Apply a VERY ARTIFICAL correction for decline!!" and "APPLY ARTIFICIAL CORRECTION." Another, quantify_tsdcal.pro, says: "Low pass filtering at century and longer time scales never gets rid of the trend - so eventually I start to scale down the 120-yr low pass time series to mimic the effect of removing/adding longer time scales!"

It's not clear how the files were leaked. One theory says that a malicious hacker slipped into East Anglia's network and snatched thousands of documents. Another says that the files had already been assembled in response to a Freedom of Information request and, immediately after it was denied, a whistleblower decided to disclose them. (Lending credence to that theory is the fact that no personal e-mail messages unrelated to climate change appear to have been leaked.)

For its part, the University of East Anglia has posted a statement calling the disclosure "mischievous" and saying it is aiding the police in an investigation.

The statement also quotes Jones, CRU's director, explaining his November 1999 e-mail, which said: "I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline." Jones said that the word trick was used "colloquially as in a clever thing to do" and that it "is ludicrous to suggest that it refers to anything untoward."

Also unclear is the ultimate impact of the leak, which came before next month's Copenhagen summit and Democratic plans for cap and trade legislation.

On one hand, over at RealClimate.org, Gavin Schmidt, a modeler for the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, has been downplaying the leak. Schmidt wrote: "There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research ... no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no 'marching orders' from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords."

On the other, groups like the free-market Competitive Enterprise Institute, the target of repeated derision in the leaked e-mails, have said: "We have argued for many years that much of the scientific case for global warming alarmism was weak and some of it was phony. It now looks like a lot of it may be phony."

ScienceMag.org published an article noting that deleting e-mail messages to hide them from a FOI request is a crime in the United Kingdom. George Monbiot, a U.K. activist and journalist who previously called for dramatic action to deal with global warming, wrote: "It's no use pretending that this isn't a major blow. The emails extracted by a hacker from the climatic research unit at the University of East Anglia could scarcely be more damaging."

Complicating matters for congressional Republicans who'd like to hold hearings is that East Anglia, of course, is a U.K. university. The GOP may intend to press the Obama administration for details on how the EPA came to rely on the CRU's predictions, and whether the recent disclosure will change the agency's position. Another approach lies in e-mail messages discussing grants from the U.S. Commerce Department's National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to East Anglia; one says: "We need to show some left to cover the costs of the trip Roger didn't make and also the fees/equipment/computer money we haven't spent otherwise NOAA will be suspicious."

The irony of this situation is that most of us expect science to be conducted in the open, without unpublished secret data, hidden agendas, and computer programs of dubious reliability. East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit might have avoided this snafu by publicly disclosing as much as possible at every step of the way.

KRonn

Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2009, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on November 22, 2009, 02:23:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 22, 2009, 01:46:34 PM
I guess it is funny sometimes to see how some people react to their religious views being questioned :)

I think it's funny when people get confused about what religion is and what it is not.

I call 'em as I sees 'em.  Environmentalism (Global Warming in particular) has become a religion for many people these days.

Agreed, and that's why I've become very wary and suspect at the extreme views on climate change, greening, all the whole movement. We all want greener, cleaner, but some of the groups pushing things seem to have it as their ideology, way of life, hatred of the way things are now, want everyone to radically change. And follow the money trail - some groups or industries stand to make a lot of money on the climate change industry.

We'll see where this goes. At least some in Congress are calling for an investigation.

Neil

Hopefully, good sense in the Democratic majority will keep Congress out of this.  Then again, if there's one thing that Congressmen love, both Democrat and Republican, it's to meddle.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.