No change soon on `don't ask, don't tell'

[Valmy]

The hypothetical presence of gays and lesbians is thus seen as more potentially harmful than the actual presence was seen as actually hamrful! 

That does not surprise me at all.

[grumbler]

It's like in the South: people don't mind their presence when they are slaves, but when they are freed they become a problem.

Indeed.  I would love to see Zogby's researchers go back in time and conduct the same poll, replacing "gays and lesbians" with "negroes."  I'd bet the predctions would be just as bad, if not worse.

[dps]

Not surprising, with Gates ramping up the war in Afghanistan and winding down the war in Iraq he doesn't have time for controversy. Nor does Obama who has the economy and health care reform to take care of.

They don't need to change any laws.  The POTUS just needs to issue an executive order that states that no one will be discharged for being discovered as a homosexual for the duration of the War on Terror, citing national security grounds.

He didn't say anything about changing any laws; he merely stated that the administration has other priorities and doesn't want the controversy that would come from changing the policy.

[Richard Hakluyt]

A pity that it is seen as controversial at all 

Of course, once it is permitted, then the rights lobby will stick it's oar in. So if some gay sergeant gets called the "dear old Queen" during standard military badinage with his peers then a huge fuss will be made.

[Martinus]

A pity that it is seen as controversial at all 

Of course, once it is permitted, then the rights lobby will stick it's oar in. So if some gay sergeant gets called the "dear old Queen" during standard military badinage with his peers then a huge fuss will be made.

I love how the British military actually sends their own floats to gay pride parades. And the Empire hasn't collapsed yet.

[The Brain]

[Neil]

A pity that it is seen as controversial at all 

Of course, once it is permitted, then the rights lobby will stick it's oar in. So if some gay sergeant gets called the "dear old Queen" during standard military badinage with his peers then a huge fuss will be made.

I love how the British military actually sends their own floats to gay pride parades. And the Empire hasn't collapsed yet.

Yes it has.

Moreover, the RN surrendered to the Iranians.  More proof of the evil of gays.

[grumbler]

He didn't say anything about changing any laws; he merely stated that the administration has other priorities and doesn't want the controversy that would come from changing the policy.

I was the one who noted that no laws need be changed (DADT is a law, after all).  That the administration has ther priorities other than implementing what Obama has acknowledged as righting an injustice says a lot - though it says nothing surprising.  I understand that DADT is a political nightmare, and that obama realizes he probably has more chances of getting policies that are actual vote-getters (like health care reform) than of ending DADT without a ruckus.

My point isn't that Obama has this high on his list of priorities - just that it should be high on his list of priorities if he really means it when he talks about issues like national security and justice for service members (both those who are gay or lesbian, and those who are forced to unwillingly continue to serve so that the gays and lesbians who want to serve in their stead can be kicked out for no valid reason whatever).

[MadImmortalMan]

And Tim, you should check the statistics of a number of high level army specialists (including Middle East experts, as well as Arabic language translators and interpreters etc.) who were discharged under the policy. If anything, the military needs these people now because it has so much on its plate.

It's been in place for twenty years now. Do you think those people will come back if it goes away?


I agree they should scrap it, but doing so would certainly cause a big distraction when it happens. If that isn't outweighed by the benefit to be gained, then fine. I don't think I'm in a position to know whether that's the case right now with the current missions, though.

[Martinus]

And Tim, you should check the statistics of a number of high level army specialists (including Middle East experts, as well as Arabic language translators and interpreters etc.) who were discharged under the policy. If anything, the military needs these people now because it has so much on its plate.

It's been in place for twenty years now. Do you think those people will come back if it goes away?


I agree they should scrap it, but doing so would certainly cause a big distraction when it happens. If that isn't outweighed by the benefit to be gained, then fine. I don't think I'm in a position to know whether that's the case right now with the current missions, though.

These people were discharged over the last couple of years. I'm pretty sure they would come back if they could.

[Sheilbh]

I love how the British military actually sends their own floats to gay pride parades. And the Empire hasn't collapsed yet.

I recommend Brass Eye's take on the gay navy from sometime in the 90s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3icDB3kRKPg

[garbon]

Why are you being gay with your men?

[Kleves]

If the rule changed, would gays have seperate living accomodations? Would straight men have seperate showers? Or would everything just operate as it does currently?

[Martinus]

If the rule changed, would gays have seperate living accomodations? Would straight men have seperate showers? Or would everything just operate as it does currently?

Why wouldn't it? It's not like there aren't gays in the military right now - and obviously, in other Western countries, they also serve openly and you don't have like gay barracks or the Sacred Theban Band for them.

Obviously, the rules against having sex while on duty and whatnot would apply to gay servicemen and servicewomen just as they apply to straight ones.

This is really a ridiculous question.

[garbon]

I've heard that gay people are always having sex. How do you reckon the army would accommodate that?