Obama orders pay cut for execs at rescued firms

[Neil]

You would think so, but as it turns out MBAs run a lot of companies.  It seems that somebody thinks that they're worthwhile.

But the MBAs who only got the degree to make more money are not the guys you want running your company.  You want the ones who got their MBAs so they would qualify for the added responsibility and authority.  The guys only out for the cash will fuck up your company for the quick buck, and then bail out with a golden parachute.  They are the guys who got us all into this mess.

The powertrippers can mess you up just as bad.

Unfortunately, you can only guess as to what sort of MBA you are hiring.

[dps]

You would think so, but as it turns out MBAs run a lot of companies.  It seems that somebody thinks that they're worthwhile.

But the MBAs who only got the degree to make more money are not the guys you want running your company.  You want the ones who got their MBAs so they would qualify for the added responsibility and authority.  The guys only out for the cash will fuck up your company for the quick buck, and then bail out with a golden parachute.  They are the guys who got us all into this mess.

The powertrippers can mess you up just as bad.

Unfortunately, you can only guess as to what sort of MBA you are hiring.

Yeah, if I need a heart transplant, I want a surgeon who got into medicine because he wanted to help people and save lives, not one who went to med school just because doctors tend to make a really good living.  But there's really no way to know which type your doctor is.

And anyway, grumbler has largely set up a false dichotomy.  Most people with advanced degrees are motivated both by money and other factors.  I'm not saying that there are no people with advanced degrees who aren't motivated only by money, but I think that they're the exception.

[Berkut]

If I was having a heart transplant, I would want it done by some type-A asshole who is driven to be the absolute best at whatever he does, and I could not care less whether he "cared about people" or not.

Those are the experts - the driven ones. And money plays into that, if nothing else as a way to "keep score". The idea that someone driven by money/success is necessarily a bad manager is not exactly sensible.

The currency of success in business is money, at all levels.

[grumbler]

Yeah, if I need a heart transplant, I want a surgeon who got into medicine because he wanted to help people and save lives, not one who went to med school just because doctors tend to make a really good living.  But there's really no way to know which type your doctor is. 

Then, if one doctor refuses to transplant your heart for less than $5 million, and one will do it for $1 million, which do you choose? 

And anyway, grumbler alfred russel has largely set up a false dichotomy.

Since AR is the one who insists that most MBAs are money-hounds and not seekers of responsibility, I would guess you mean he has set up this dichotomy.  I never said that MBAs didn't seek money, just that it was not a motivator for all of them.

Most people with advanced degrees are motivated both by money and other factors.  I'm not saying that there are no people with advanced degrees who aren't motivated only by money, but I think that they're the exception.

Management research says this is untrue - that, beyond a certain level of wages that make it clear that your employer values you and is not exploiting you, money does not motivate very much.  Or, to put it another way, money (like all motivations) has diminishing returns, and those returns diminish faster for money than responsibility, amongst the kinds of people you want running your company.  Thus, it is better to go for the prospective executive who wants less money but more responsibility, than to pay an exec ten million and just hope that he or she doesn't bankrupt your company.

[Eddie Teach]

If I was having a heart transplant, I would want it done by some type-A asshole who is driven to be the absolute best at whatever he does,

I dunno, that guy may be more stressed out and prone to mistakes because of it. I'd want the guy who practices Zen an hour a day.

[grumbler]

If I was having a heart transplant, I would want it done by some type-A asshole who is driven to be the absolute best at whatever he does, and I could not care less whether he "cared about people" or not.

Those are the experts - the driven ones. And money plays into that, if nothing else as a way to "keep score". The idea that someone driven by money/success is necessarily a bad manager is not exactly sensible.

The currency of success in business is money, at all levels.

As garbon would say, "this is what the poor people would say."

[Berkut]

If I was having a heart transplant, I would want it done by some type-A asshole who is driven to be the absolute best at whatever he does,

I dunno, that guy may be more stressed out and prone to mistakes because of it. I'd want the guy who practices Zen an hour a day.

If so, then he will fail at being a heart transplant surgeon, and won't be on my list anyway.

The ones who are great are the guys who thrive on stress. I know, because I watched Greys Anatomy once.

[alfred russel]

Thus, it is better to go for the prospective executive who wants less money but more responsibility, than to pay an exec ten million and just hope that he or she doesn't bankrupt your company.

Every prospective executive wants responsibility--hence the status as a prospective executive. I doubt there are many that want less money.

[Admiral Yi]

Every prospective executive wants responsibility--hence the status as a prospective executive. I doubt there are many that want less money.

With the exception of the current AIG CEO and similar dollar a year men during WWII.

[dps]

Yeah, if I need a heart transplant, I want a surgeon who got into medicine because he wanted to help people and save lives, not one who went to med school just because doctors tend to make a really good living.  But there's really no way to know which type your doctor is. 

Then, if one doctor refuses to transplant your heart for less than $5 million, and one will do it for $1 million, which do you choose? 

Probably whichever one my G.P. referred me to.

And anyway, grumbler alfred russel has largely set up a false dichotomy.

Since AR is the one who insists that most MBAs are money-hounds and not seekers of responsibility, I would guess you mean he has set up this dichotomy.  I never said that MBAs didn't seek money, just that it was not a motivator for all of them.

AR hasn't insisted that most MBAs are money-hounds and not seekers of responsibility, unless I've missed a post.  He's insisted that qualified people at the executive level expect a level of compensation that seems excessive to many people.

Most people with advanced degrees are motivated both by money and other factors.  I'm not saying that there are no people with advanced degrees who aren't motivated only by money, but I think that they're the exception.

Management research says this is untrue - that, beyond a certain level of wages that make it clear that your employer values you and is not exploiting you, money does not motivate very much.  Or, to put it another way, money (like all motivations) has diminishing returns, and those returns diminish faster for money than responsibility, amongst the kinds of people you want running your company.  Thus, it is better to go for the prospective executive who wants less money but more responsibility, than to pay an exec ten million and just hope that he or she doesn't bankrupt your company.

Not sure exactly what in the the rest of the above paragraph would demonstrate that my statement is untrue.  In fact, it would seem to support my point that most people are motivated by factors other than money (though I suspect that there are very few people at any level in any field who want less money, all else being equal).

[garbon]

As garbon would say, "this is what the poor people would say."

I'm sorry, but you don't quite seem to have the hang of it. Perhaps it is a cultural thing.

[grumbler]

I'm sorry, but you don't quite seem to have the hang of it. Perhaps it is a cultural thing.

Or it is you that doesn't have the hang of it. 

[grumbler]

Probably whichever one my G.P. referred me to.

Really?  You would pay an extra $4 million unnecessarily, just because your GP told you to?

Bullshit.

AR hasn't insisted that most MBAs are money-hounds and not seekers of responsibility, unless I've missed a post.  He's insisted that qualified people at the executive level expect a level of compensation that seems excessive to many people.

No, because the latter point is one I agree with.  The issue here is what kinds of people you want running your company:  those who want to run the company for the enjoyment of the challenge, and those who want to run it because they think they will make more money that way.  The former do not need to be compensated nearly as well as the latter, but will be much better for the company in other ways as well.

[Eddie Teach]

You're both bad at it, as is Neil. A true blueblood gives so little thought to the poor that his insults are unintentional.

[Warspite]

What's a "poor"?