Obama orders pay cut for execs at rescued firms

Started by Savonarola, October 22, 2009, 03:24:12 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 11
User actions

alfred russel

#45
October 23, 2009, 02:31:37 PM
Quote from: ulmont on October 23, 2009, 02:24:13 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 02:05:09 PM
As would I--but those people aren't going to be qualified to run (or unwind) the financial products division of AIG.

Considering that Supreme Court Justices only get paid $208,100, I'm going to disagree with you here.

Great point. If I ever own a sports franchise, I'm going to base everyone's pay on USSC justice salaries. If it is good enough to get talent for the USSC, then surely it is good enough for a sports team! I could get Derek Jeter to play shortstop--or even Ruth Bader Ginsberg!
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Berkut

#46
October 23, 2009, 02:33:04 PM
Quote from: Zanza on October 23, 2009, 02:30:14 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 23, 2009, 02:16:45 PMThat is like arguing that since planes crash when their are qualified pilots flying them due to their errors, we should just ahve some schmuck fly the planes, since clearly being qualified doesn't matter anyway.
No.

My point was that renumeration and qualification are not necessarily related. Not that qualification does not matter.

Following from that, I don't think that Alfred's point that you would not find someone qualified for $200k is correct.

...then following from that point, I don't think there is any reason to imagine that we cannot find "qualified" jumbo jet pilots for $6/hr.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

grumbler

#47
October 23, 2009, 02:33:34 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 01:39:06 PM
There are first years at investment banks straight out of MBA programs that make more than that.
Which investment banks are those?  Lehman Brothers? Morgan Stanley?
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

alfred russel

#48
October 23, 2009, 02:34:02 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 23, 2009, 02:33:34 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 01:39:06 PM
There are first years at investment banks straight out of MBA programs that make more than that.
Which investment banks are those?  Lehman Brothers? Morgan Stanley?

Goldman Sachs.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Berkut

#49
October 23, 2009, 02:34:30 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 02:31:37 PM
Quote from: ulmont on October 23, 2009, 02:24:13 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 02:05:09 PM
As would I--but those people aren't going to be qualified to run (or unwind) the financial products division of AIG.

Considering that Supreme Court Justices only get paid $208,100, I'm going to disagree with you here.

Great point. If I ever own a sports franchise, I'm going to base everyone's pay on USSC justice salaries. If it is good enough to get talent for the USSC, then surely it is good enough for a sports team! I could get Derek Jeter to play shortstop--or even Ruth Bader Ginsberg!

I think his point is that you could find someone for $200k, and since we know that there are lots of teams out there who fail to win the World Series (in act, MOST of them fail), and those teams have lots of people making more than $200k/year, then clearly it isn't really that important to pay them such lofty salaries. Obviously.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

grumbler

#50
October 23, 2009, 02:35:26 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 23, 2009, 02:16:45 PM
That is like arguing that since planes crash when their are qualified pilots flying them due to their errors, we should just ahve some schmuck fly the planes, since clearly being qualified doesn't matter anyway.
This is like arguing that since the schmuck is going to crash the plane anyway, he should be paid $2 million a year, since total compensation should be divorced from success.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Zanza

#51
October 23, 2009, 02:38:42 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 02:31:37 PMGreat point. If I ever own a sports franchise, I'm going to base everyone's pay on USSC justice salaries. If it is good enough to get talent for the USSC, then surely it is good enough for a sports team! I could get Derek Jeter to play shortstop--or even Ruth Bader Ginsberg!
So you think we should have a salary cap for investment bankers?  :P

Berkut

#52
October 23, 2009, 02:38:58 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 23, 2009, 02:35:26 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 23, 2009, 02:16:45 PM
That is like arguing that since planes crash when their are qualified pilots flying them due to their errors, we should just ahve some schmuck fly the planes, since clearly being qualified doesn't matter anyway.
This is like arguing that since the schmuck is going to crash the plane anyway, he should be paid $2 million a year, since total compensation should be divorced from success.

Sounds good to me! We should work for the government.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

ulmont

#53
October 23, 2009, 02:41:49 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 02:31:37 PM
Great point. If I ever own a sports franchise, I'm going to base everyone's pay on USSC justice salaries.

In the sports context, where each game is zero-sum, it may make sense to pay 100 times more to get someone twice as good as average.

In almost every other context, you're just throwing your money away after you reach the "competent" zone.

grumbler

#54
October 23, 2009, 02:42:17 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 02:34:02 PM
Goldman Sachs.
Goldman Sachs is not an investment bank.  It is bank holding company (as of September last year).  They still do some investment banking, but I don't think there are any indie investment banks left.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Ed Anger

#55
October 23, 2009, 02:42:43 PM
Quote from: ulmont on October 23, 2009, 02:41:49 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 02:31:37 PM
Great point. If I ever own a sports franchise, I'm going to base everyone's pay on USSC justice salaries.

In the sports context, where each game is zero-sum, it may make sense to pay 100 times more to get someone twice as good as average.

In almost every other context, you're just throwing your money away after you reach the "competent" zone.

I'll settle for 'mediocre'.
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

grumbler

#56
October 23, 2009, 02:44:30 PM
Quote from: ulmont on October 23, 2009, 02:41:49 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 02:31:37 PM
Great point. If I ever own a sports franchise, I'm going to base everyone's pay on USSC justice salaries.

In the sports context, where each game is zero-sum, it may make sense to pay 100 times more to get someone twice as good as average.

In almost every other context, you're just throwing your money away after you reach the "competent" zone.
I don't think you can meaningfully talk about a banker being "twice as good as average," so i agree with you.  Corporate compensation is so messed up not because of market pressures, but because of the fucked-up way senior compensation is handled.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

alfred russel

#57
October 23, 2009, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 23, 2009, 02:42:17 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 02:34:02 PM
Goldman Sachs.
Goldman Sachs is not an investment bank.  It is bank holding company (as of September last year).  They still do some investment banking, but I don't think there are any indie investment banks left.


There are a lot of indie investment banks left, and Goldman Sachs does plenty of investment banking.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

alfred russel

#58
October 23, 2009, 03:00:05 PM
Quote from: ulmont on October 23, 2009, 02:41:49 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 02:31:37 PM
Great point. If I ever own a sports franchise, I'm going to base everyone's pay on USSC justice salaries.

In the sports context, where each game is zero-sum, it may make sense to pay 100 times more to get someone twice as good as average.

In almost every other context, you're just throwing your money away after you reach the "competent" zone.

Okay, but how do you get to the competent zone? Who are you going to get to head up accounting? An accountant with the organizational and technical skills to lead a group could probably be a partner at a large firm--where he or she would command 7 figures. Anyone with the management experience and skill you would expect could become a partner in a consulting firm and make even more. Who is going to competently manage the IT system? Are you going to compete with investment banks, hedge funds, and private equity groups for any employees, or just take the leftovers?
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

ulmont

#59
October 23, 2009, 03:09:03 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 03:00:05 PM
Are you going to compete with investment banks, hedge funds, and private equity groups for any employees, or just take the leftovers?

I'll happily take the leftovers; remove the striving for the absolute top dog salaries, and I'm sure you weed out a lot of the douchebags.

Quote from: alfred russel on October 23, 2009, 03:00:05 PMWho is going to competently manage the IT system?

This, I am 100% sure I can get done for less than 200k.

Print
Go Up Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 11
User actions