Afghan Strategy

[jimmy olsen]

Berk - bang on with that last post.  I have no idea how AF can make a reliable, national force AND pay for it.

Legalize heroin worldwide?

Wouldn't that cause prices to crash once agribuissness jumps on the bandwagon?

[citizen k]

Kicking ass?

More like, it's an uphill battle and the Afghans have to be dragged along kicking and braying.

[Octavian]

 

Kicking ass?

[Jos Theelen]

Isn't it time to think about non-military solutions?

An example: people who know afghanistan say it has a closed economy, mainly producing agricultural products and opium. The trade of those product is controlled by the warlords, who have all the reason to keep that system in place. Farmers are mainly dependent of those warlords.

So you could undermine this system, by giving the farmers a guaranteed price for their products. It gives them the economic security, so they produce less opium, and make them less dependent of the warlord. Also it pumps money from below in economy, not from above through the corrupt government. It would undermine Taliban activities, who get their money from opium production. And it would make farmers and their families far more positive to the US.

It would also cost probably a lot less money and lives.

[Hansmeister]

I'm going with Alci. assessment over whatever agiprop. Hansie comes up with

I don't think Alci and I have a differenting position on the situation in Afghanistan.

[Hansmeister]

A few years ago you were saying that Afghanistan was pretty much a lost cause anyway.

It's always cute when you make shit up.

[Jaron]

A few years ago you were saying that Afghanistan was pretty much a lost cause anyway.

It's always cute when you make shit up.

I always hear that high pitched voice when I read your posts.

[Razgovory]

A few years ago you were saying that Afghanistan was pretty much a lost cause anyway.

It's always cute when you make shit up.

What ever you say.

[Grallon]

There was this caricature in my local paper this morning. 

http://photos.cyberpresse.ca/caricatures/#enVedette/0/recherche/Rechercher%20un%20album/0/onglets/51/0/album/7017/170155/

The general says: "Without reinforcements we will quickly lose the war!  With 40 thousand soldiers more we will lose it very slowly".

This sums up the afghan debate IMO.  We should pull out.




G.

[Alcibiades]

You already are. 

[Grallon]

You already are. 

If you mean canadians - most certainly not; 2011 is the last estimated date for redeployment.  That is unless Harper doesn't justify an extension.

If you were talking about something else than be more clear.




G.

[The Minsky Moment]

There was this caricature in my local paper this morning. 

http://photos.cyberpresse.ca/caricatures/#enVedette/0/recherche/Rechercher%20un%20album/0/onglets/51/0/album/7017/170155/

The general says: "Without reinforcements we will quickly lose the war!  With 40 thousand soldiers more we will lose it very slowly".

This sums up the afghan debate IMO.  We should pull out.

Personally, I fund newspaper cartoonists to be a poor source of strategic advice, but YMMV.

[KRonn]

Well besides the obvious of hearing guys in the wire, or experiencing it.  Losing communications with your guys, "finding" your soldiers that are KIA, whether they were dead when they were overwhelmed.

When he's speaking about having all their sensitive items, radios etc.  God knows what was done to their bodies, or in their final seconds.

Can't imagine how things completely went down, I doubt they were all in body armor even, most were probably sleeping when it started.  But if the TOC and ammo supply point are overrun, usually these are the most heavily defended areas and are strong points. 

The guys were most likely fighting in small groups, not even coordinated for the most part in a situation like that, and training is hard to use when you're never supposed to be exposed to a situation like that against overwhelming odds practically by yourself.  The guys that died must have been terrified and and felt very alone. 

I mean honestly, it has to have been the scariest thing you can ever encounter.  I mean my cop was attacked several times, but nothing like this, let alone numbers.  And I've been in heavy combat for a hours at a time , and it felt like forever, and you're exhausted after.  I can't imagine being in combat for upwards of 20 hours straight.  And if a commander is freaking out over the radio, which he definitely was....these guys are supposed to be the cool of cool, regardless of situation, must have been blood chilling to hear over the radio.  I'm sure it looked like hell.

Hearing of the battle rosters being called over the radios, been there, brings back terrible memories.  Hearing KIA over the radio and then listening for the initials to hear if it's someone you know or are really good friends with.... can't really describe it.

Being overrun is really the scariest thing you can think of as a soldier, especially by our current enemy...Don't really know what else to say besides that.

Lots of little stuff like that I guess, brings back some things I guess.

Thanks for the info and insight. That article was a pretty harrowing account to read. 

[Grallon]

Personally, I fund newspaper cartoonists to be a poor source of strategic advice, but YMMV.

We had our little snide moment of the day?  We are feeling better now?

-----

At this point I look at the results in the field and they are very limited - diminishing in fact considering the talibans are gaining ground.  Another quick military victory turned sour for lack of long term planning.  But beyond there's the fact these 'people' aren't interested in changing so why waste time, money, lives?  Ah yes... to prevent terrorism from gaining a foothold.  Too late since they have it next door in (nuclear) Pakistan. 

Will there be another war with that sir?




G.

[Queequeg]

The moment the "unwinnable" war in Iraq was won they now proclaim Afghanistan unwinnable and are preparing for surrender.  No surprise there.

I think you go too far here by a little bit.  Its a fairly complex mixture of isolationism, various misconceptions about Afghanistan and Afghan history (its unconquerable, its a culture less wasteland that's never produced anyone/anything of value) and some stupid Euro idea that America is the source of all evil in the world.