Linuxtard...

[viper37]

I've found Netgear to be marginally worse than Linksys.  Whenever anybody asks for wireless recommendations from me, I tell them to fork over the extra cash for a D-Link, as it's worth it.

I went from D-Link to Linksys, myself actually.  Got fed up with half working routers.
Seems I got the same deal with Linksys...

[Barrister]

We're not saying Linux (whatever flavour you may prefer) is a butched up OS that completely crap.
We're just saying that for the average user, it is no good.  It's still far from Windows, though it's getting closer.

I named the issues that personally prevent me from using Ubuntu on any of my machine as the default OS.  I like that little OS.  It's fast, it's not that hard to use, but sometimes, you just hit your head on a wall.  And these happen to be critical issues for me.

That's my take on Linux.  I think it's really amazing people have built up this entire OS from scratch, for free.  I understand it does a few things pretty well, and has found a few niches where it even dominates.

But I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to use it as a home computer.   

[DontSayBanana]

I went from D-Link to Linksys, myself actually.  Got fed up with half working routers.
Seems I got the same deal with Linksys...

Linksys cards get spotty connections, but their routers are the worst I've ever used.  I'm stuck with a couple freebies, so my main source of network integrity is running two WRT54G routers redundantly.

As far as the codec, no.  DVDs ran fine on Windows until I formatted and replaced it with Linux, and the problem continued when I put Windows back on.  Tested with every DVD I owned; as mentioned, DVD-ROM drivers are actually twofold for playing commercial DVD video: a decoder to interpret the format, and a decrypter, to read data from the VOB streams.  It turned out that the driver for the decrypter is actually attached to the system, not to the device itself (first thing I updated and reinstalled was the driver for the optical drive).

[viper37]

But I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to use it as a home computer.  

Yeah, it's like these guys who're using a Mac.  Who in his right mind would use a non standard OS on his machine??

[Barrister]

But I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to use it as a home computer.   

Yeah, it's like these guys who're using a Mac.  Who in his right mind would use a non standard OS on his machine??

You joke, but there are perfectly valid reasons someone would want to run OS X.   First is you want to get stylish Apple hardware, then you also get OS X thrown in.  Second is the "it just works" factor.

And of course there's perfectly calid reasons people use Windows.  It comes pre-installed on 99.9% of non-Apple PCs.  It runs almost every possible piece of software imaginable.  And while the ease of use isn't as good as Apple, it's generally not too bad.  And since it comes pre-installed, most useds don't have to go under the hood very often (and if they do you can probably find a friend who can fix it for you).

But Linux?  What's the reason someone would run Linux (on a home desktop or notebook)?  It's free, but the cost of the OS is pretty negligible in the overall cost of the system.  Ease of use is not as good as the competition, since if something goes wrong it REALLY goes wrong.  It runs a lot less software than the competition.  And it has no swanky hardware to drive sales.

Other than the sheer geeky coolness of it, I just don't see the reasoning.

[derspiess]

Other than the sheer geeky coolness of it, I just don't see the reasoning.

It's secure (the same "security by obscurity" thing Macs benefit from) & it tends to run well on lower spec PCs.  If you want to set up a PC where you'll only need to do web browsing, email, and some light office-related stuff, it should serve that purpose well.

Like I said earlier, I can't see having Linux as the OS on my main pc, but I can see a bunch of reasons to have it set up on a secondary pc.

[DontSayBanana]

It's secure (the same "security by obscurity" thing Macs benefit from) & it tends to run well on lower spec PCs.  If you want to set up a PC where you'll only need to do web browsing, email, and some light office-related stuff, it should serve that purpose well.

Like I said earlier, I can't see having Linux as the OS on my main pc, but I can see a bunch of reasons to have it set up on a secondary pc.

Not just "security by obscurity" since tarball installation requires the user to specifically enter the terminal and run as an administrator.  Debian and RPM packages also run in a much more compartmentalized manner than Windows' EXE or MSI installers.

[derspiess]

Just for shits & gigs, I did a quick mental inventory of all Linux devices I have in my house.  Most of them run some flavor of embedded Linux, but Linux is Linux:

*HTC Hero running Android
*Tivo HD
*Tivo Series 2 Dual-Tuner
*Chumby
*Hauppauge Media MVP media streamer
*WRT54G router running DD-WRT firmware
*Pinnacle video converter box
*Acer Aspire One running Ubuntu
*Old Celeron desktop PC running Ubuntu

[Barrister]

Just for shits & gigs, I did a quick mental inventory of all Linux devices I have in my house.  Most of them run some flavor of embedded Linux, but Linux is Linux:

*HTC Hero running Android
*Tivo HD
*Tivo Series 2 Dual-Tuner
*Chumby
*Hauppauge Media MVP media streamer
*WRT54G router running DD-WRT firmware
*Pinnacle video converter box
*Acer Aspire One running Ubuntu
*Old Celeron desktop PC running Ubuntu

My comments were directed solely towards desktop/laptop linux.  Linux has definitely found a home in embedded devices.

[derspiess]

And my post had nothing to do with yours

[Josquius]

And while the ease of use isn't as good as Apple, it's generally not too bad.  And since it comes pre-installed, most useds don't have to go under the hood very often (and if they do you can probably find a friend who can fix it for you).

Whatever avantages a mac may have over windows ease of use is certainly not one of them.


As to why you'd use linux- its very resource cheap.
I've a friend who uses ubuntu as standard because he has a seriously shit laptop and all he really needs to do with it is play music, do homework and use the internet.

[DontSayBanana]

Linux would be the OS of choice for modernizing old computer rigs or for low-power PCs like netbooks that might not be able to handle the massive boot processes of Windows or Mac; other than that, I'd point out that Xandros has gone semi-commercial and is included in OEM netbook builds with enough third-party software that it's usable out of the box as pretty much anything other than a gaming rig.

[derspiess]

other than that, I'd point out that Xandros has gone semi-commercial and is included in OEM netbook builds with enough third-party software that it's usable out of the box as pretty much anything other than a gaming rig.

I hope things turn around, but the whole Linux on netbook thing doesn't seem to have been too successful.  I thought this would be Linux's big chance to penetrate the mainstream market, but it seems that consumers react negatively when they realize the machine doesn't run some version of Windows (IIRC this has resulted in a lot of returned netbooks). 

[DontSayBanana]

I hope things turn around, but the whole Linux on netbook thing doesn't seem to have been too successful.  I thought this would be Linux's big chance to penetrate the mainstream market, but it seems that consumers react negatively when they realize the machine doesn't run some version of Windows (IIRC this has resulted in a lot of returned netbooks). 

The whole Linux thing is kinda bass-ackwards; most usable distributions aren't free anymore, but even though they make some money, they don't spend any on advertising.  It's a shame, because on the surface, it looks exactly like why antitrust regulators salivate when they hear mention of Microsoft, but a lot of this is the doing of the people that handle business operations for those Linux distributions as well.

[viper37]

Linux is bloated.  Apparently

Linus Torvald: Linux is bloated

LinuxCon 2009 Linux creator Linus Torvalds says the open source kernel has become "bloated and huge," with no midriff-slimming diet plan in sight.

During a roundtable discussion at LinuxCon in Portland, Oregon this afternoon, moderator and Novell distinguished engineer James Bottomley asked Tovalds whether Linux kernel features were being released too fast, before the kernel is stabilized.

Citing an internal Intel study that tracked kernel releases, Bottomley said Linux performance had dropped about two per centage points at every release, for a cumulative drop of about 12 per cent over the last ten releases. "Is this a problem?" he asked.

"We're getting bloated and huge. Yes, it's a problem," said Torvalds.

Asked what the community is doing to solve this, he balked. "Uh, I'd love to say we have a plan," Torvalds replied to applause and chuckles from the audience. "I mean, sometimes it's a bit sad that we are definitely not the streamlined, small, hyper-efficient kernel that I envisioned 15 years ago...The kernel is huge and bloated, and our icache footprint is scary. I mean, there is no question about that. And whenever we add a new feature, it only gets worse."

He maintains, however, that stability is not a problem. "I think we've been pretty stable," he said. "We are finding the bugs as fast as we're adding them — even though we're adding more code."

Bottomley took this to mean that Torvalds views that the current level of integration is acceptable under those terms. But Mr. Linux corrected him. "No. I'm not saying that," Torvalds answered. "Acceptable and avoidable are two different things. It's unacceptable but it's also probably unavoidable."

Among techies, Windows usually gets the bad wrap for bloat, but as Linux expands it reach, roping in so many additional features and devices, it can't help but suffer the same fate. What's different is how such problems are tackled.

"Okay, so the summary of this is that you expect that 12 per cent to be back to where it should be next year, and you expect someone else to come up with a plan to do it," joked Bottomley. "That's open source." ®