Russian-Belarussian Wargames - "West 2009"

[Berkut]

Huh?

Please, do tell me how you are going to spin the idea that the UN (established in 1945) won WW2.

FDR used the phrase 'United Nations' to describe the Allies.

So? That doesn't make them the "UN" in the rather clear context that we are talking about the UN and the rather clear context that HE was talking about the UN, as in a list of things the "UN" has done.

I guess we can now list all the things the UN did, and as long as they were actually done by some group of nations working in a United way, why, the UN did it!

Like invade the USSR in 1941! The Germans and Romanians were "United Nations"!

[Sheilbh]

I agree.  Viking's being preposterously pedantic.

[Admiral Yi]

Well of course.
What else is the UN but a collection of states? United nations so to speak.

Your orginal post was that the UN is good at getting states to stop cross-border invasions, wasn't it?  As as has been pointed out, there have been tons of cross-border invasions the UN has not gotten states to do anything about.  If you're talking about the two "UN successes," then your argument is reduced to "the US is good at getting the US to stop cross-border invasions (except when they don't) and the UK and France are good at getting themselves to stop cross-border invasions (except when they don't).

[Viking]

Huh?

Please, do tell me how you are going to spin the idea that the UN (established in 1945) won WW2.

FDR used the phrase 'United Nations' to describe the Allies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II

Yes

During December, 1941, U.S. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt devised the name "United Nations (UN)" for the Allies

The sole condition for joining the United Nations Organisation was being a member of the United Nations and at war with one or more members of the Axis. This is why Iceland didn't join until 1949, we refused to declare war on Germany.

While I agree that my argument is slightly pedantic; but true nonetheless. The first act of the united nations was to fight and defeat the axis. The criticism of the UN is effectively criticizing the UN for not being the World Policeman or imposing the Universal Declaration of Human Rights on sovereign nations or stopping wars by means of committee. These are fundamentally unfair criticisms. Given the purpose assigned to the UN, the resources assigned to the UN and decision making procedures imposed on the UN (the Bureaucracy) by the member states (the UN) asking the UN (the Bureaucracy) to behave like an all powerful member state. Blaming the UN (the Bureaucracy) for the failures of the member states is just unfair.

[Zoupa]

Definitely less dangerous, but a strong case could be made for more unstable.

You guys ain't helping much.

[Admiral Yi]

You guys ain't helping much.

Sorry about the countries Iraq has invaded recently.  We have to pretend they're an independent state.

[Zoupa]

You guys ain't helping much.

Sorry about the countries Iraq has invaded recently.  We have to pretend they're an independent state.

Because Iraq with containment and massive no fly zones was just about to unleash their 40 year old tanks all over the known world, right before Dubya mission-accomplished them. Phew.

[Admiral Yi]

Because Iraq with containment and massive no fly zones was just about to unleash their 40 year old tanks all over the known world, right before Dubya mission-accomplished them. Phew.

Only a matter of time before your Baghdad paymasters told you to end the no fly zones.

And we don't all have the charm to invite a 3rd world dictator to Paris and get him to change his behavior with just a kiss on the cheeks.

[Zoupa]

I don't get it. 

[Agelastus]

Because Iraq with containment and massive no fly zones was just about to unleash their 40 year old tanks all over the known world, right before Dubya mission-accomplished them. Phew.

Only a matter of time before your Baghdad paymasters told you to end the no fly zones.

And we don't all have the charm to invite a 3rd world dictator to Paris and get him to change his behavior with just a kiss on the cheeks.

Gaddaffi?

[Admiral Yi]

Mugabe

[Zoupa]

I didn't get the paymasters part.

[Admiral Yi]

I didn't get the paymasters part.

That's a reference to the fact that 60% of Iraqi imports under the food for oil program came from France, the French politicians implicated in the food for oil bribery case, and the oil deals awarded to French companies.

[Zoupa]

I didn't get the paymasters part.

That's a reference to the fact that 60% of Iraqi imports under the food for oil program came from France, the French politicians implicated in the food for oil bribery case, and the oil deals awarded to French companies.

Well, yes. 

I mean I don't see how we could have ended the no-fly zones, you know, with them being enforced by F 16s from the Alabama national guard and not a bunch of rafales from Marseille.

[Admiral Yi]

Well, yes. 

I mean I don't see how we could have ended the no-fly zones, you know, with them being enforced by F 16s from the Alabama national guard and not a bunch of rafales from Marseille.

The WMD inspections were being conducted by Norwegians, that didn't stop you.