US General asks for more troops

[Darth Wagtaros]

Why would we want a democracy there in the first place?  Without all sorts of complicated safeguards wouldn't the dominant tribes and/or fundamentalist wackjobs win most of the elections?

[MadImmortalMan]

With the elections going on over there, Coalition forces are making a specific point to stay neutral wrt Karzai. He doesn't have the backing of the US.

[Warspite]

With the elections going on over there, Coalition forces are making a specific point to stay neutral wrt Karzai. He doesn't have the backing of the US.

Perhaps not overtly at the moment - but given that Afghanistan is not a self-sustaining parliamentary democracy, and still essentially a collection of warlords and the Taliban, there's no one else to throw in one's lot with.

[CountDeMoney]

All douchebags that think we should leave Afghanistan need to go down to the World Trade Center for a little while.

[Admiral Yi]

All douchebags that think we should leave Afghanistan need to go down to the World Trade Center for a little while.

Latest ABC poll has 53% of Americans responding that the war is not worth fighting.

[CountDeMoney]

All douchebags that think we should leave Afghanistan need to go down to the World Trade Center for a little while.

Latest ABC poll has 53% of Americans responding that the war is not worth fighting.

Any war in which a Taliban/Al Qaeda neanderthal gets killed is a war worth fighting, and then the world has one less rape victim-shooting, fag-tossing child molesting moon worshipper trying to kill us.

Sounds like 53% of Americans need to jump to their deaths from a burning skyscraper to get their priorities straight.

[viper37]

No more troops for this lost cause!!!!

No blood for useless wasteland!

Burger eating surrender monkeys? 

[Sheilbh]

(The Afghan National Army, however, is quite good, although smaller than needed)

But isn't this a problem in itself.  We want the Afghan National Army to be around 150 000 within the next few years.  The goal overall is for it to be 250-300 000.  I just don't see how a country like Afghanistan can hope to sustain a military of that size. 

Now I support putting more troops in, in general.  But I think we haven't had an honest debate, or a sense of direction in Afghanistan since the start of the war.  I think we need both.  At the minute it seems like we're still muddling through.

I don't think the US has been backing Karzai for at least a year now.

They have, everyone has.  His government's unpleasant but the fear was that any other candidate (effectively Abdullah Abdullah) would drive even more Pashtuns into the Taliban.

[Sheilbh]

All douchebags that think we should leave Afghanistan need to go down to the World Trade Center for a little while.

Latest ABC poll has 53% of Americans responding that the war is not worth fighting.

I don't think it's a war people care about though.  I mean many countries have figures like that and it doesn't make Afghanistan a big enough issue for politicians to lose votes, or people to march over.

[Darth Wagtaros]

No more troops for this lost cause!!!!

No blood for useless wasteland!

Burger eating surrender monkeys? 

I think we should kill as many Talibaners as possible.  Then go into Pakistan.

[viper37]

Generals always want more troops. Even if you've the most kick arse super powered military ever they'll still complain.
Its their job.

true.
But there's been insufficient troops there since victory was declared.
And insufficient intelligence resources, wich was more critical.  It's been posted before.  Long articles, as always

Anyway, I don't blame the US for not putting more troops there, I blame the other NATO allies who did not put sufficient troops or gave them such restrictions that it was the same as though they weren't there.

But now there's a problem: there is the need for more troops&resources there to win the fight.  No country will do anything about it.  Will the US cut&run or will they commit the needed resources?

Crazy canuck got it right, it will be viewed as a US failure, the same way Vietnam is seen.  The same way Iraq will be seen if the situation doesn't improve beyond the "casual terrorist attack".

[viper37]

I suspect politicians in the US are going to face similar problems.

Um...no.  I have never actually heard a US politician actually saying we should leave Afghanistan.

At least one Democrat politician said the US should leave the country, and I hear the Congress doesn't want to approve new funding/troops for the mission.  Or am I mistaken?

[CountDeMoney]

Anyway, I don't blame the US for not putting more troops there,

I do.  It rests solely on the Bush Administration.  After all, it was so much more important to invade a country whose leader tried to whack Dubya's Daddy, and YAH JUS DOAN MESS WIFF TEXAS.

[viper37]

I don't think it's so straightforward. The problem is that the commitment necessary to win is looking increasingly open-ended. There's a legitimate question to be asked: if we can't make Afghanistan work in ten years, will another ten make a difference?

For how many years were there a UN presence in Cyprus?
What happenned to Somalia when everyone left?  Is it a haven of peace now?

Really, I think it is straighforward:  Leave Afghanistan and provide AQ with the means to attack US&others again or stay there until they are forever defeated, even if that takes another 30 years.

[viper37]

I don't buy the idea that we cannot manage to control Afghanistan, even if NATO put a decent effort into it, therefore, there is no reason to put a decent effort into it.

We ahve experts there who say what they need, and they have been sayinthe same thing for a long time - they need more troops, more money, more support.

We are going to not give it to them, then sit back and say "well, we don't think it would really work even if we gave you what you say you need". Bullshit - that is just excuse making.

If Afghanistan ends up a failure, it will be because the West decided it wasn't important enough to succeed. It is just that simple.

I agree wholeheartedly with that, and I think it's a first that I am 100% in agreement with Berkut ever since the days of EUOT...