British citizen creates national uproar in Quebec

[HVC]

Drakken, tell you friend to learn french or go home.

Fuck you. The language of Canada is English. You lost the war. Canada: love it or leave it.

Actually, it is what many wants... that Québec leaves Canada

Language of Canada maybe english but language of Québec is french 

But they want to keep canadian subsidies

[Sheilbh]

Shelf, when you're talking about a massive government outlay of funds it would be helpful if your justification were a little more substantial than "I think it would be nice."

I don't think it would require a massive government outlay.  If schools in Catalunia can teach in both Spanish and Catalan and ones in Ireland teach both Irish and English then I don't see why Canada wouldn't be able to teach in both French and English.  Especially because I believe there are significantly more French speakers in Canada than there are Irish speakers in Ireland.  So I reject the idea that effective bilingual education would cause a massive outlay. 

I mean even on a small scale Scotland starts teaching the first foreign language at, I believe, 8.  That's relatively recent but hasn't cost an obscene amount.  It's far, far easier to teach a language to a child than it is when they're teenagers and I think that learning a foreign language should be as much a core of education as science, geography, history or anything else.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't think it would require a massive government outlay.  If schools in Catalunia can teach in both Spanish and Catalan and ones in Ireland teach both Irish and English then I don't see why Canada wouldn't be able to teach in both French and English.  Especially because I believe there are significantly more French speakers in Canada than there are Irish speakers in Ireland.  So I reject the idea that effective bilingual education would cause a massive outlay. 

I mean even on a small scale Scotland starts teaching the first foreign language at, I believe, 8.  That's relatively recent but hasn't cost an obscene amount.  It's far, far easier to teach a language to a child than it is when they're teenagers and I think that learning a foreign language should be as much a core of education as science, geography, history or anything else.

And do you find that all Scotsmen are bilingual?  It's one thing to study a language, it's a totally different thing to maintain it.  Those who maintain it usually do so because there is a perceived utility.  E.g. Spanish for Catalans.

[Neil]

Shelf, when you're talking about a massive government outlay of funds it would be helpful if your justification were a little more substantial than "I think it would be nice."

I don't think it would require a massive government outlay.  If schools in Catalunia can teach in both Spanish and Catalan and ones in Ireland teach both Irish and English then I don't see why Canada wouldn't be able to teach in both French and English.  Especially because I believe there are significantly more French speakers in Canada than there are Irish speakers in Ireland.  So I reject the idea that effective bilingual education would cause a massive outlay. 

I mean even on a small scale Scotland starts teaching the first foreign language at, I believe, 8.  That's relatively recent but hasn't cost an obscene amount.  It's far, far easier to teach a language to a child than it is when they're teenagers and I think that learning a foreign language should be as much a core of education as science, geography, history or anything else.

Ireland is a tiny, homogenous country.  Catalunia is a tiny, homogenous district of a small country.  What you are talking about is a massive make-work project for Quebecois.  Canadians do not like Quebecois, anymore than they like French.

You're absolutely wrong about learning a foreign language.  It just isn't important.

[Sheilbh]

And do you find that all Scotsmen are bilingual?  It's one thing to study a language, it's a totally different thing to maintain it.  Those who maintain it usually do so because there is a perceived utility.  E.g. Spanish for Catalans.

Well I don't know about the effects in Scotland, it's only been going for the past few years.  The plan is that ultimately kids will start learning French when they start school.

You're right that it's totally different to maintain it.  I don't think it's much to require that state employees do, in a country that's officially bilingual.  I think that's the way that Irish is maintained to the level that I believe most Irish citizens and certainly state employees are semi-fluent.

Although I think you're missing the pleasure principle.  Everyone I know who's good at another language, who doesn't have one parent speaking another language, maintain them for love, not utility.  They go on holiday to France at least once a year, watch French films and some love French poetry (for some reason they're all French-speakers).  I think language that's all utility is a failure of teaching.

[garbon]

Although I think you're missing the pleasure principle.  Everyone I know who's good at another language, who doesn't have one parent speaking another language, maintain them for love, not utility.  They go on holiday to France at least once a year, watch French films and some love French poetry (for some reason they're all French-speakers).  I think language that's all utility is a failure of teaching.

I don't think that most of Canada would decide to have a love of speaking French if taught it in schools...especially if the French instruction is rightfully seen as a project for the benefit of Quebec.

[Neil]

I was educated in French, and I have nothing but contempt for Quebec, and see the French language as a dead end, useful only as resume padding.

[Admiral Yi]

Everyone I know who's good at another language, who doesn't have one parent speaking another language, maintain them for love, not utility.  They go on holiday to France at least once a year, watch French films and some love French poetry (for some reason they're all French-speakers).  I think language that's all utility is a failure of teaching.

That's because everyone you know who's good at another language is a hobbyist.  You can't assume the same motivation for the entire Canadian civil service.

[Sheilbh]

I don't think that most of Canada would decide to have a love of speaking French if taught it in schools...especially if the French instruction is rightfully seen as a project for the benefit of Quebec.

It's not for the benefit of Quebec.  It's to fulfill the fact that Canada's officially a bilingual nation.  It's as much for the Clarksons as the Leclercs.

That's because everyone you know who's good at another language is a hobbyist.  You can't assume the same motivation for the entire Canadian civil service.

Yeah, which is where the utility comes in.  But bilingual education would enable more people to have the hobby as well as state jobs.

[Grey Fox]

Drakken, tell you friend to learn french or go home.

Fuck you. The language of Canada is English. You lost the war. Canada: love it or leave it.

We didn't lose no war. France lost the war & left. Canadians are still here.

I mean, as a tourist you are free to come here & fuck other men as much as you want (and will probably be seen much better then in Ontario) in english, no one will complain.

But if you want to work in an hospital, well you're going to do it in French.

It's a choice we made, 40 years ago, You don't have to like it, you don't have to come here.

[garbon]

We didn't lose no war. France lost the war & left. Canadians are still here.

I mean, as a tourist you are free to come here & fuck other men as much as you want (and will probably be seen much better then in Ontario) in english, no one will complain.

But if you want to work in an hospital, well you're going to do it in French.

It's a choice we made, 40 years ago, You don't have to like it, you don't have to come here.

I'd like to fuck another man in french, maybe in a hospital as well.

[Grey Fox]

Entirely possible.

Would you like me to arrange something? I charge 50$.

[garbon]

No thanks. I prefer to handle my business on my own.

[Camerus]

In fact, in my province there are mandatory French classes between the ages of 8 to 14.  However, virtually everyone agrees their net effect is practically:  none.  Even those students who take French through the end of high school generally just speak enough "to get by" and navigate road signs and shops when in Quebec.

Canada already has laws governing bilingualism in the federal public service and certain other industries.  The effect of these laws is that these industries tend to be dominated disproportionately by Francophones, who, for obvious reasons, generally usually speak English better than Anglophones will speak French.

The laws also lead to some other absurdities.  Air Canada, for instance, has laws governing its need to offer services in both English and French.  Thus, sometimes language inspectors will pop up in Buttfuck, Alberta and file a complaint if no one there speaks French to their satisfaction.

[Zoupa]

Canada is a federation, where provinces decide a lot of things.

What a lot of you guys don't seem to get is that Quebec is unilingual francophone. That's a fact. There's really no point in complaining when you don't get served in english. 90% of the population is francophone and a big chunk of that doesn't speak english, especially out in the countryside.

There's no real incentive for them to learn english. There's even less incentive for them to serve you in english.

Just like you shouldn't expect to be served in english in a small town in turkey, china, italy or wherever.

On parle francais icitte. Calisse.