Libyan leader Gaddafi files motion to partition Switzerland at UN

[Siege]

Ok, Berkut and Grumbler should use avatars with diferent paint tones.

[Razgovory]

Ok, Berkut and Grumbler should use avatars with diferent paint tones.

This is true.

[Pat]

I thought we had already established in the old languish that there is no evidence that the CIA was behind the coup in Chile.  Indeed, similarly as in Honduras it was Allende who precipitated the crisis when he tried to set himself up as dictator leading to the revolt by the legislature, the judiciary, and the military against his rule.

FFS learn some real history and not this made-up crap about how it was the CIA that overthrew Allende.  Sure, the US supported his overthrow, and the CIA provided some support and funding, but the coup was entirely Chilean, and would almost certainly have occurred when and as it did, given Allende's perceived commitment to abolish the Chilean legislature via a plebiscite.

I refer you both to chapter V of the fine book by Christopher Hitchens, "The Trial of Henry Kissinger", which by and large lets recently de-classified documents speak for themselves as regards US involvement in the overthrow of the government of this "dagger pointed at the heart of Antarctica".

And as for FFS learn real history not made up crap, the US didn't overthrow Allende - it only provided support and funding! - well that might just be the best example of a distinction without a difference I've ever seen.


edit: link fixed

[Razgovory]

Another communist!  What's with it and communists in this thread?

[Berkut]

And as for FFS learn real history not made up crap, the US didn't overthrow Allende - it only provided support and funding! - well that might just be the best example of a distinction without a difference I've ever seen.

Would you say that Sweden invaded France in 1941, since that would be a similar "distinction without a difference"?

How much support and funding must one provide for this distinction to lose its difference?

If I say "Wow, I really think the IRA is swell" and send them 48 cents, is that enough?

[Pat]

I refer you to the chapter I linked. I ask you to read it and then state whether you still believe US involvement to be analogous to Swedish involvement in the Nazi invasion of France or sending 48 cents to the IRA.

[The Minsky Moment]

[he matches it with made-up "facts" about Chavez nationalizing Venezuela's oil industry (which has, of course, been nationalized for thirty-plus years)

That's a common error although Chavez has nationalized other industrial sectors and of course he also broke contracts with a number of the private oil cos operating in the country.  The FT ran an article today about the impact of his "reforms" on the coffee industry, which was once a significant export earner.  Price controls and interventions basically wiped out what remained of the industry and allegedly drove the remaining roasters to smuggle their product out of the country to avoid the price control.  In response, Chavez seized the roasters last month, and it is now estimated that under present production trends, venezuela will soon become a net coffee importer.

The same article notes that Venezuela, which not long ago was roughly self-sufficient in food production, now relies on imports for 50% of its food needs.  And with price controls and rampant inflation hitting farmers, this problem is likely to get worse before it gets better.

[Berkut]

I refer you to the chapter I linked. I ask you to read it and then state whether you still believe US involvement to be analogous to Swedish involvement in the Nazi invasion of France or sending 48 cents to the IRA.

Why would I do that?

Answer the question - what level of "support and financial assitance" is necessary to decide that there is no distinction between doing something yourself, and "supporting" someone else doing it?

[The Minsky Moment]

Well we can surmise from the response that providing large quantities of iron ore to a raw materials starved war economy is not that significant.

[Siege]

Miglia? That sounds italian. From the north.

[Pat]

I refer you to the chapter I linked. I ask you to read it and then state whether you still believe US involvement to be analogous to Swedish involvement in the Nazi invasion of France or sending 48 cents to the IRA.

Why would I do that?

Because it is well-written, short and to the point, will take no more than 5 minutes of your time, and you might learn something. Or perhaps you don't care about that, perhaps you only care about winning the argument, I don't know. 

Answer the question - what level of "support and financial assitance" is necessary to decide that there is no distinction between doing something yourself, and "supporting" someone else doing it?

Now why would I do that?

[Berkut]

Because you are putting forth the claim that there is a "distinction without difference", and I am trying to figure what what lengths you are willing to go to in order to hold onto your article of faith that the nasty mean CIA "overthrew Allende".

You are making a claim. You certainly are under no obligation to defend your claim, however.

[Pat]

I have asked you to respond to a written source, which is no article of faith and which is more than enough to explain my position. You are under no obligation to do so, but I don't see why you would not, unless, of course, your position is based on faith and not evidence.

[Razgovory]

And as for FFS learn real history not made up crap, the US didn't overthrow Allende - it only provided support and funding! - well that might just be the best example of a distinction without a difference I've ever seen.

Would you say that Sweden invaded France in 1941, since that would be a similar "distinction without a difference"?

How much support and funding must one provide for this distinction to lose its difference?

If I say "Wow, I really think the IRA is swell" and send them 48 cents, is that enough?

It would probably land you in prison.

[Ape]

Yeah, for failing to take over the world liberating the proletariad.

Good try