Libyan leader Gaddafi files motion to partition Switzerland at UN

[Barrister]

Did Chile actually go down the drain?  Isn't it one of the most successful countries in South America?

Today after some 50 years, but ask a Chilean that question, please. And then tell him you are from the USA and ask him if it was worth it.

As with so many things, it depends on which Chilean you ask.  Some will say yes, some will say no. 

[Ape]

Oh I knew I would get the 'but the USA has done bad things in Latin America therefore how can YOU ever have an opinion on anything' nonsense.

We have also invested tons of money in and helped out Latin America also but as usual every thing we ever did wrong really happened and is important but everything we did good never happened and is a figment of our fucking imaginations.  Bullshit.

You honestly belive that investing money (even if it is a lot) outweights the fact that US sponsered governments in Latin-Aermica have systimatically physically eliminated left-wing opposition and overthrown democratically elected governments and replaced them with military juntas?

How do you know Allende wouldn't have been overthrown anyway?  Coups were not exactly super rare back then.  Who knows?

We don't, but meddling of the US government made it a certainity.

Anyway the US government isn't painting Chavez as anything you goofy Dane, he is perfectly capable of being a populist demagogue on his own.  He does a good job actually.

I'm not a Dane 
So the US government did not call Chavez a "negative force" in the region and tried isolate Venezuela from it's neighbors diplomatically and economically?

[Valmy]

The tragedy of Chavez is that he took a country that had real prospects and a core of talented and skilled professionals and sabotaged it, looting the country to fund his political slush funds.  If an evil genius concoted a sinister plan to systematically destroy the underpinnings of the Venezuelan economy, he could not have done a more efficient job of it than Chavez has done.

Hush man, we are not allowed to point out the obvious since the CIA was involved in a coup 35 years ago.

[DGuller]

Did Chile actually go down the drain?  Isn't it one of the most successful countries in South America?

Today after some 50 years, but ask a Chilean that question, please. And then tell him you are from the USA and ask him if it was worth it.

Why is it successful today?  Could it be because socialism was interrupted before the damage it did became permanent?  I'm sure Allende was a swell guy, and Pinochet was an evil guy, but it takes a complete divorce from reality to think that Allende was leading his country in the right direction.  The economy was near collapse when he was offed.

[Valmy]

You honestly belive that investing money (even if it is a lot) outweights the fact that US sponsered governments in Latin-Aermica have systimatically physically eliminated left-wing opposition and overthrown democratically elected governments and replaced them with military juntas?

Systematically?  Don't make me laugh.

So the US government did not call Chavez a "negative force" in the region and tried isolate Venezuela from it's neighbors diplomatically and economically?

Considering we are still refining Venezuela's oil and have not asked that they be punished in anyway internationally I have to wonder what sort of crack you are snorting.

You implied there was some sort of propaganda campaign to smear Chavez as a populist left wing demogogue which is ridiculous as he self-evidently is.

I'm not a Dane

Oh right.

Goofy Swede.  Sorry.  Hey weren't you the guys who got mad that he was giving your weapons to militias?  OH NO SWEDEN IS UNFAIRLY GOING AFTER THE POOR INNOCENT CHAVEZ!!111  Can you explain Sweden's propaganda campaign to paint Chavez as somebody who supplies militias to destabilize it's neighbors?

[Jaron]

The only greater gift the US could give to our Latin American brothers would be to pop a bullet into Chavez's skull and letting the Venezuelan people seize their own destiny.

[Ape]

Chile's per capita GDP is higher than Venezuela, even though Venezuela is literally sitting on an ocean of oil, whereas Chile's main resources other than copper are cod, plums and avocados.

Pinochet was an awful man who did terrible things, but it simply is not accurate to say the country went down the drain.

GDP doesn't give the full picture, you know that. What is the income distribution of Chile by the why? Or it's unemployment? And when did Chile actually get out of the gutter?

[Jaron]

Since we're at this game and on the topic.


What about what Sweden did to the Baltic states and Finland? You know these areas are still struggling and backwards because of Swedish imperial dominination , don't you?

[Ape]

Why is it successful today?  Could it be because socialism was interrupted before the damage it did became permanent?  I'm sure Allende was a swell guy, and Pinochet was an evil guy, but it takes a complete divorce from reality to think that Allende was leading his country in the right direction.  The economy was near collapse when he was offed.

Be that as it may, but it deprived the Chilean people the chance to decide for themselves about their future. Instead it was dictated from Washington with a gun.

[Ape]

Since we're at this game and on the topic.


What about what Sweden did to the Baltic states and Finland? You know these areas are still struggling and backwards because of Swedish imperial dominination , don't you?

Sorry Jaron  go troll someone that actually cares

[Jaron]

Why is it successful today?  Could it be because socialism was interrupted before the damage it did became permanent?  I'm sure Allende was a swell guy, and Pinochet was an evil guy, but it takes a complete divorce from reality to think that Allende was leading his country in the right direction.  The economy was near collapse when he was offed.

Be that as it may, but it deprived the Chilean people the chance to decide for themselves about their future. Instead it was dictated from Washington with a gun.

Are you seriously suggesting that without the US = no coup? You're assuming quite a bit, aren't you?

[The Minsky Moment]

Venezuela's poverty rate is much higher than Chile, even by the government statistics.  Chile's rate is under 20, while Venezuela's rate varies according to source from 25 to over 40%.

[DGuller]

Be that as it may, but it deprived the Chilean people the chance to decide for themselves about their future. Instead it was dictated from Washington with a gun.

Yes, of course, but that's a different argument.  However, the argument that Pinochet's coup turned Chile into a basket case is a non-starter.  It actually prevented Chile from descending into a basket case status, whether Chileans appreciate that or not.  Life would be easy if moral choices always led to best results, and immoral choices led to worst results, but alas it's not always the case.

[Valmy]

Be that as it may, but it deprived the Chilean people the chance to decide for themselves about their future. Instead it was dictated from Washington with a gun.

That is ridiculously melodramatic.  Who carried out the coup?  Who ran the dictatorship?  We simply went along with it because of the context of the Cold War.

It was a shitty thing to do and I would be against us doing anything like it in the future but please let's not get carried away.

[Jaron]

Be that as it may, but it deprived the Chilean people the chance to decide for themselves about their future. Instead it was dictated from Washington with a gun.

That is ridiculously melodramatic.  Who carried out the coup?  Who ran the dictatorship?  We simply went along with it because of the context of the Cold War.

If the Chilean people could have picked, they'd have picked Pinochet.