Russia and Ukraine: New Tardfight?

[Eddie Teach]

I care.

Send weapons to the Ukraine.

Heck the Ukrainians have nukes right?  What is Russia really going to do?

How solidly is the population of Ukraine in favor of independence?

[Sahib]

I care.

Send weapons to the Ukraine.

Heck the Ukrainians have nukes right?  What is Russia really going to do?

No they don't. IIRC they used to but given them up.

[Viking]

No nukes in Ukraine, all the CIS states had to give up their weapons to Russia.

[Sahib]

How solidly is the population of Ukraine in favor of independence?

Western Ukraine very much. Eastern Ukraine is Russian-speaking and favors pro-Russian policies, but (AFAIK) most of them still consider themself Ukrainians are contrary to what is sometimes said aren't excactly waiting to be reenaxed into Mother Russia. The only part of the country with such sentiments is Crimea.

[Sahib]

No nukes in Ukraine, all the CIS states had to give up their weapons to Russia.

Yeah, they got bribed to give them up. Thought in the early 1990's the Ukrainian president proposed an alliance between Ukraine and Poland, Czechs and Hungary that would have been BACKED BY THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS 

[Valmy]

No nukes in Ukraine, all the CIS states had to give up their weapons to Russia.

Whoops.

Well then...um...

I am out of ideas.  Sorry Ukraine.

[Neil]

I don't know why the fuck the Ukrainians would be stupid enough to try to force Ukrainian down the throats of Russian speakers.  They don't remember fucking Russification just a few decades ago?  They don't see the irony, let alone the threat Russia poses?

That's the whole point:  To roll back Russification, and to eliminate the dagger that is constantly against their throat.  Otherwise, the Ukrainians will eventually be victims of Russian genocide again.

[Ed Anger]

US-EU Plan To "Move" Earth Orbit Doomed, Say Russian Scientists

By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers

A new report circulating in the Kremlin today states that Russian Space Scientists are warning that the United States and European Union plan to actually move the orbit of our Planet Earth, in what these Westerners are now calling an "accelerated phase", is "doomed to failure" and could actually threaten the existence of all mankind.

Not being largely known by the Western peoples is that their present state of life under the twin terrors of war and Global economic collapse has, in reality, been a decades-long scheme by their leaders to suborn their citizens natural intellect in order to keep them from knowing the true terror of our times and from where our greatest danger lies, our own Solar System.

In the briefest overview of this danger possible, one must turn back to when the United States President Ronald Reagan first took office in 1981, and who upon his reading the assassination file of Pope John Paul I became aware of the true danger facing our World, whereupon he, Reagan, then decided to inform his citizens, like the late Roman prelate had attempted to do, only to become another casualty of the assassins of secrets and darkness on March 30, 1981.

Pope John Paul II, being saddened by the near fatal assassination attempt upon Reagan, and knowing of the true facts surrounding the murder of his predecessor John Paul I, became the last World leader to attempt to tell humanity "the secret" whereupon he, like those before him, was gunned down on May 13, 1981, effectively placed into the "abyss of silence".

Though never fully informing his people of the true danger they were facing, Reagan did continue to subtly allude to it, the most famous of his "warnings" being his September 21, 1987 speech before the assembly of the United Nations, and where he stated in a grave tone, "I wonder how quickly our differences, Worldwide, would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this World."

Bolstering Reagan's knowledge of this "alien threat" was the 1983, 10-month mission of the Infrared Astronomical Satellite (IRAS) joint telescope project of the United States (NASA), the Netherlands (NIVR), and the United Kingdom (SERC), and which confirmed the theories of many imminent scientists and researchers [Professor Richard Muller, UC Berkley;  Walter Cruttenden, Binary Research Institute(BRI); Dr. Daniel Whitmire of the University of Louisiana, etc.] of our Solar System being binary in origin and possessing a brown dwarf "twin" to our Sun and of which was written about in the Washington Post on December 30, 1983:

"A heavenly body possibly as large as the giant planet Jupiter and possibly so close to Earth that it would be part of this solar system has been found in the direction of the constellation Orion by an orbiting telescope aboard the U.S. infrared astronomical satellite.

So mysterious is the object that astronomers do not know if it is a planet, a giant comet, a nearby "protostar" that never got hot enough to become a star, a distant galaxy so young that it is still in the process of forming its first stars or a galaxy so shrouded in dust that none of the light cast by its stars ever gets through."

But, where in the 1980's this "threat" to our Planet was abstract in nature, and its potential future course towards Earth was still being widely debated, this cannot be said today, and as we can read from the latest reports on this mysterious brown dwarf twin of our Sun by Italian scientists:

"For two weeks, Pluto has been impacted, heating and disruption of a new celestial body too close to its orbit. The reason: a brown dwarf 1.9Mj size that is positioned right in "Sagittarius," and that currently is disrupting the orbit of Pluto. But not only that of Pluto, too, is disturbing the orbit of Jupiter and other planets of the solar system. In fact, the Sun, CMEs has issued in recent weeks that have caused a shift in our geomagnetic axis exactly in 19th, and an increase of the seismicity of 1.33 MW on average seismicity in 2008, so "literally" to confirm the theory "of our solar system binary. Something is coming, and clearly, the peak of the Oort cloud in the area of Sagittarius, is caused by a brown dwarf, which may also be viewed on the WorldWideTelescope, (WWT), right, tracing the orbit of Pluto."

And, as we had previously reported on in our July 20th report, Meteor Hit On Jupiter Prompts Russian Warning For Earth, and our August 3rd report Russia Says Comet Strike On Venus Following Jupiter Hit Is "Dire Warning' For Earth, and with Saturn's rings now being hit by meteors too [3rd photo left], these new reports are further warning that the US and EU are "going forward" with their plan to actually attempt to move our Earth's orbit so as not to experience the catastrophes known to our World's most ancient of peoples when this "cosmic dance" of "planetary giants" is due to occur in our present age between the years of 2010-2012.

To the sheer magnitude of the West's plan to move our Planet Earth we can also read as reported in 2001 by Britain's Guardian News Service at the outset of the terrors the West has put upon humanity:

"Scientists have found an unusual way to prevent our planet overheating: move it to a cooler spot. All you have to do is hurtle a few comets at Earth, and its orbit will be altered. Our world will then be sent spinning into a safer, colder part of the solar system.

This startling idea of improving our interplanetary neighbourhood is the brainchild of a group of Nasa engineers and American astronomers who say their plan could add another six billion years to the useful lifetime of our planet - effectively doubling its working life.

'The technology is not at all far-fetched,' said Dr Greg Laughlin, of the Nasa Ames Research Center in California. 'It involves the same techniques that people now suggest could be used to deflect asteroids or comets heading towards Earth. We don't need raw power to move Earth, we just require delicacy of planning and manoeuvring.'

The plan put forward by Dr Laughlin, and his colleagues Don Korycansky and Fred Adams, involves carefully directing a comet or asteroid so that it sweeps close past our planet and transfers some of its gravitational energy to Earth.

'Earth's orbital speed would increase as a result and we would move to a higher orbit away from the Sun,' Laughlin said.

Engineers would then direct their comet so that it passed close to Jupiter or Saturn, where the reverse process would occur. It would pick up energy from one of these giant planets. Later its orbit would bring it back to Earth, and the process would be repeated."

Russian scientists, however, describe as "sheer insanity" this plan of the West's to make of our inner Solar System a "shooting gallery" of comets under the guise of protecting us from Global Warming, of which the West is still failing to fully inform its citizens is, in fact, occurring on all of the Planets.

Even worse, these reports warn that the United States and Israel's planned "earthquake simulation", due to take place on August 27th in the Negev desert, so that our Earth's "new alignment" can be further "tweaked" after the "magnetic tides" of the combined Jupiter-Venus-Saturn meteor strikes "wash over" our electromagnetic field could, instead, cause "catastrophic tidal forces" to be unleashed upon our Planet.

But in all of these events, one can only wonder how much more these simple human beings can continue playing like they're gods until the wrath of a real one wakes them up from their dreams of Global dominance? Perhaps it will be sooner, much sooner, than they think.     

© August 26, 2009 EU and US all rights reserved

[Eddie Teach]

Global Warming, of which the West is still failing to fully inform its citizens is, in fact, occurring on all of the Planets.

I wonder if with enough greenhouse gases, Mars will be livable without self-contained domes.

[Barrister]

I care.

Send weapons to the Ukraine.

Heck the Ukrainians have nukes right?  What is Russia really going to do?

They got rid of them years ago.

[DGuller]

The only part of the country with such sentiments is Crimea.

Which isn't surprising, given how Crimea was never part of Ukraine until Khruschev gifted it to Ukraine when he came to power.

[Queequeg]

How solidly is the population of Ukraine in favor of independence?

Western Ukraine very much. Eastern Ukraine is Russian-speaking and favors pro-Russian policies, but (AFAIK) most of them still consider themself Ukrainians are contrary to what is sometimes said aren't excactly waiting to be reenaxed into Mother Russia. The only part of the country with such sentiments is Crimea.

I don't think they'd enjoy having Ukrainian shoved down their throats, either.  Ukraine doesn't appear to know that it is treading on eggshells, only underneath the eggshells are claymore mines and discarded heroin needles. 

Which isn't surprising, given how Crimea was never part of Ukraine until Khruschev gifted it to Ukraine when he came to power.

The same is true of the entire Black Sea coast and a lot of Eastern Ukraine.  That area went from being Turkic to being settled by a hodgepodge of Cossacks, converted Turks and Russians without any connection to supposed antecedents of the modern Ukrainian state (mostly Kievan Rus', though the Ruthenian parts of the Polish-Lithuanian confederacy too). 

Anyway, Ukraine is crucial to European energetic safety. With Ukraine in Russian hands, Russia pretty much controls the Black Sea and can exert strong pressure on Turkey (which is already leaning towards Russia, if judged by the recent overtures between Putin and Edrogan), and it means it becomes the sole dealer of all gas that goes into Europe from Asia.

1) It's Erdoğan, pronounced Erdooan. 
2) Turks and Russians have been fighting for the better part of a thousand years.  They are natural enemies, with almost a thousand years of constant slaughter and slavery between them. They hate the Russians with a far more visceral passion than maybe even the Poles.  You Islamophobe motherfuckers drove the Turks into Russia's (childish but far more shrewd) arms. 

So was Poland in 1939. If Russia takes the Ukraine it becomes a real threat to Europe once again.

Or, you know, not.  Russia is undergoing a demographic and economic collapse, and they've blown all their raw material money on bullshit, wasting an opportunity to develop a real economy or invest in infrastructure or fight graft.  Russia's structural problems are so large at this point that they are mostly a threat to themselves besides the obvious nuclear possibility.  Without an energetic, reformist leader and a demographic rebound (which I think are likely in the medium term, but not now) Russia will continue to drown itself in drugs, alcohol and retardation.

Even with the Ukraine that's all still true.  And after Ukraine, what will Russia do?  Annex Belarus?  There are too many natives in the Baltic states, and there are no neat chunks of Poland or Finland to bite off.

[Barrister]

I don't get that "shoving Ukrainian down their throats".  It's a Ukrainian nation, and its a pretty natural part of nationhood to want to promote your language.  Besides the two languages are very similar and I understand it's not all that hard for a Ukrainian speaker and a Russian speaker to comprehend each other.

And Ahab, as usual you spend far too much time worry about ancient history when trying to analyse modern politics.

[The Minsky Moment]

Ukraine is a shithole. Nobody cares, and that's fine.

So was Poland in 1939. If Russia takes the Ukraine it becomes a real threat to Europe once again.

You are a bloody idiot. Ukraine is and has always been the key to the Russian Empire. Russia becomes the empire whenever it has Ukraine and is not when it loses it. Keeping Ukraine out of the Russian reach is crucial to keeping Russia in check.

At risk of crossing the emeregent Timmi-Marti Bund, this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Whether Russia is or is not a threat depends on the objective quality of Russian strength and power.  Were Ukraine to fall under Russian influence or even jurisdiction it would not have much significant positive impact on Russian power.  More likely the net effect would be negative (the old Soviet Russia subsidized Ukrainian energy usage which is ultimately behind much of today's wrangling.

Of course I am not advocating selling out the Ukraine but I find the bearmongering puzzling.

[Queequeg]

I don't get that "shoving Ukrainian down their throats".  It's a Ukrainian nation, and its a pretty natural part of nationhood to want to promote your language.  Besides the two languages are very similar and I understand it's not all that hard for a Ukrainian speaker and a Russian speaker to comprehend each other.

Then what's the difference between a free Ukraine and Ukraine as part of Russia?  I don't see the difference here: Ukrainians and Russians are so similar that Russian speakers in Ukraine should just get used to Ukrainian, while during Russification Russians thought that Ukrainian and Russian were so similar that Ukrainians should just start speaking Russian. 

And Ahab, as usual you spend far too much time worry about ancient history when trying to analyse modern politics.

There's no love lost between Turks and Russians today, and east of Kiev and going from Odessa  east you won't hear much Ukrainian.  How does the history not matter?