The Lockerbie Bomber and revenge

[Siege]

I got a question.
Why is revenge seen as such a negative thing in the West?
Revenge for me is nothing more than justice.
People that do harm to other people deserve harm done to them.
It is the natural way of things, and the only way to prevent this harm from being repeated.

So, from where does this negative perception of revenge comes from?
Why is revenge not seen as justice in the West?

[Alatriste]

Good question. I suppose some of our distinguished fellows, having studied Laws, will have far better and more detailed explanations, but my own opinion is that revenge is hot, personal and partial (and leads to an endless cycle or revenges, a world of infinite little tribal wars), while justice is cold, detached and impartial, and relies on a set of detailed rules equal for all, namely, the Law.   

It's all part of the social contract and the state's monopoly of violence. At least since the Renaissance states have actively worked to stablish and maintain a monopoly of legitimate violence, with justice courts, lawyers, policemen, prisons, etc, while revenges, duels, vendettas and private armies were forbidden.

In addition, justice courts are seen as far more than a system to punish evildoers. In fact, I would say their first purpose is keeping the public peace, justice only the second, no matter how important; add to this the relatively modern (originated around 1850, perhaps?) idea that harsh punishment wasn't working to reduce crime but rather the opposite, it was converting petty hungry thiefs and the like in tough, embittered criminals... hence the reformist concept of rehabilitating delinquents rather than merely punishing them, if at all possible.

Oh, and I bet you are going to be mercilessly bombed with variants of the 'you are an Arab at heart'.

[Siege]

Well, I was referring to revenge as punishment from the State point of view, as is seen by a democratic society today. I really don't understand what's wrong with killing a proven murderer or rapist.

Especially a mass murderer as the Lockerbie bomber.

[DontSayBanana]

Well, I was referring to revenge as punishment from the State point of view, as is seen by a democratic society today. I really don't understand what's wrong with killing a proven murderer or rapist.

Especially a mass murderer as the Lockerbie bomber.

Because the proven murderer or rapist can contribute to society in other ways- law is concerned with the welfare of society, so every unjustified killing is a crime, and if the person cannot be proven tangibly to be a detriment to society, the killing cannot be justified.

Revenge is not considered justice because laws exist for the protection of the whole society- revenge only benefits, and possibly harms all but, the individual who was wronged.

[Martinus]

Siegy, there were two pillars framing the entrance to the Temple of Salomon - Iakin and Boaz - Justice and Mercy. Without Mercy, Justice is just revenge - it loses its moral quality and breeds more revenge, winding up the vicious spiral.

The main purpose of a civilized society is to suppress an individual's desire for violence in the interest of the communal tranquility.

[Ed Anger]

I follow the teachings of Bronson.

[Valmy]

One of our legal system primarily functions to prevent the sort of revenge-cycles and blood fueds that have dominated world history, by providing a civilized fair system that people agree to.

It doesn't always work perfectly as people in the west still take matters into their own hands from time to time.

[Valmy]

Without Mercy, Justice is just revenge - it loses its moral quality and breeds more revenge, winding up the vicious spiral.

I don't know if there is a requirement that Justice have an element of mercy in it (after all mercy is by definition rather arbitrary, if by rule you are supposed to be merciful than it really isn't mercy it is an entitlement and standard practice) but that is the basic idea yes.

Revenge destroys society.

[Eddie Teach]

Well, I was referring to revenge as punishment from the State point of view, as is seen by a democratic society today. I really don't understand what's wrong with killing a proven murderer or rapist.

Especially a mass murderer as the Lockerbie bomber.

Many if not most Americans see punishment as the primary purpose of the penal system, why we end up with clowns like Joe Arpaio.

[Valmy]

Many if not most Americans see punishment as the primary purpose of the penal system, why we end up with clowns like Joe Arpaio.

Hey man people love Joe Arpaio...that does reflect rather poorly on us doesn't it?

All I can say is that in our society we don't have that many mores and societal pressure keeping people in line.  There is a need for fear and self interest to be a force to keep people from committing crimes.

[Ed Anger]

I love Sheriff Joe.

[Strix]

Revenge is a dish best served cold

[Ed Anger]

Revenge is a dish best served cold

In Space

[Strix]

Revenge is a dish best served cold

In Space

"He tasks me! He tasks me! And I shall have him. I'll chase him round the moons of Nibia and round the Antares maelstrom and round perdition's flames before I give him up!"

[Ed Anger]

You see kids, that is high quality nerdliness in action. Bravo Strix.