The Wide, Wide World of Apple

[BuddhaRhubarb]

I went to several stores that sell Apple products including the Apple Store, and couldn't find a copy of Civ 4.

[Barrister]

The only real difference between a Kentsfield and a Nehalem's performance is some additional multithreading capabilities that you'll never see used unless you're running the computer as a server for some reason or other.

As for the memory, it's weird because they're using slow RAM for something that's supposed to be a processing powerhouse. My guess is that they modified DDR2 boards to accept DDR3 to make it look more bleeding-edge (1066 is slow DDR3, but the max you can get for DDR2). Buffering might make a bit of difference, ECC absolutely will not, and in fact, might slow down the memory.

Beeb can install ESX on there and then run five or six virtual macs in one!

Yay me!

[Barrister]

The only real difference between a Kentsfield and a Nehalem's performance is some additional multithreading capabilities that you'll never see used unless you're running the computer as a server for some reason or other.

As for the memory, it's weird because they're using slow RAM for something that's supposed to be a processing powerhouse. My guess is that they modified DDR2 boards to accept DDR3 to make it look more bleeding-edge (1066 is slow DDR3, but the max you can get for DDR2). Buffering might make a bit of difference, ECC absolutely will not, and in fact, might slow down the memory.

But what was my original point?  You know, the one you were trying to verify (or not)?

Apple computer themselves are reasonably priced when you look at the exact components.

If you want to argue that you can get a computer that does everything a home user needs for a lot less you can make that point.  And I somewhat agree with it.  But that's not the point you were trying to refute earlier.

[Barrister]

EDIT: BTW, before you start spouting off how "fair" it is, here's another thing to consider- a system that's entirely composed of bleeding-edge-in-its-category manufacture won't necessarily play well together. It's already caused problems with chipsets in both iMacs and MBPs.

Prove it.

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/19/apple-releases-fix-for-macbook-pro-hard-drive-issues/

There have been issues...

That has nothing to do with chipset problems, nor anything to do with "bleeding edge components not playing well with each other".

But I am not trying to say that Mac hardware is flawless.

[DontSayBanana]

The only real difference between a Kentsfield and a Nehalem's performance is some additional multithreading capabilities that you'll never see used unless you're running the computer as a server for some reason or other.

As for the memory, it's weird because they're using slow RAM for something that's supposed to be a processing powerhouse. My guess is that they modified DDR2 boards to accept DDR3 to make it look more bleeding-edge (1066 is slow DDR3, but the max you can get for DDR2). Buffering might make a bit of difference, ECC absolutely will not, and in fact, might slow down the memory.

But what was my original point?  You know, the one you were trying to verify (or not)?

Apple computer themselves are reasonably priced when you look at the exact components.

If you want to argue that you can get a computer that does everything a home user needs for a lot less you can make that point.  And I somewhat agree with it.  But that's not the point you were trying to refute earlier.

The point was that Macs are not worth the price. Simply comparing the parts by name doesn't do the job, since some of those parts are expensive only because of name, and are shaky from a construction point of view. In terms of actual function of the Mac Pro, it is not worth the price tag, because one can rely on safer, cheaper components to get the same performance. I've also put a nick in your "no bloatware" argument: they wouldn't dare, because they've bloated the components so much already.

[MadBurgerMaker]

Apple news!

My wife's iPhone has stopped emitting any sorts of sounds, including when it is supposed to be ringing.  Various resets, weird internet "fixes" involving plugging and unplugging the headphones, etc, have done nothing.  No, it's not on silent mode. 

"It just works," my ass. 

As the official Apple rep of Languish, I demand that you fix it Beeb. 

[Barrister]

Apple news!

My wife's iPhone has stopped emitting any sorts of sounds, including when it is supposed to be ringing.  Various resets, weird internet "fixes" involving plugging and unplugging the headphones, etc, have done nothing.  No, it's not on silent mode. 

"It just works," my ass. 

As the official Apple rep of Languish, I demand that you fix it Beeb. 

Send it to me and  I'll take care of it for you...

That sucks MBM.  Sounds like more of a hardware problem.  Take it back to AT&T/Apple?

[garbon]

I hope her phone doesn't explode.

[Syt]

I'm still waiting for Rockbox to come to the iPod Classic series. 

[MadBurgerMaker]

Send it to me and  I'll take care of it for you...

That sucks MBM.  Sounds like more of a hardware problem.  Take it back to AT&T/Apple?

Yeah we're gonna run it up to the Apple store this weekend.  It's sort of a strange thing.  It will properly work for ~an hour after the factory reset thing that clears everything out, but it just won't...stick.

Heh.  Mine works fine though. 

Edit:

I hope her phone doesn't explode.

Payda...I mean...me too.

[derspiess]

Yeah we're gonna run it up to the Apple store this weekend.  It's sort of a strange thing.  It will properly work for ~an hour after the factory reset thing that clears everything out, but it just won't...stick.

While you're there, ask them how to get Google Voice to work on your phone 

[Barrister]

The point was that Macs are not worth the price.

No, that was not the point.

I said.

Apple computer themselves are reasonably priced when you look at the exact components.

You replied saying:

You know, I decided to verify the bolded part.

The bolded part being my line I quoted above.

Do you wish to accept my contention that the computers are reasonably priced when you look at the exact component or not?  If you wish to continue to challenge that assertion I would ask you to do a new comparison, because the example you used was not valid as they were not even close to identical.

You then go on to say:

Simply comparing the parts by name doesn't do the job, since some of those parts are expensive only because of name, and are shaky from a construction point of view. In terms of actual function of the Mac Pro, it is not worth the price tag, because one can rely on safer, cheaper components to get the same performance.

You're mixing in two or three different arguments here. 

You start saying some parts are expensive "only because of the name".  What parts are you talking about - the processor?  Do you really think there is no difference at all between a Nehalem and a Kentfield?

Shaky from a construction point of view?  This is about the third time I've called you on this.  Prove it.  Show me a study that says Apple's computers are poorly constructed when compared to rivals.  Show me a survey, an analysis, something, anything, that demonstrates shoddy construction of Apples.

Then you come back to the "you can get equivalent performance for less".  I keep trying to tell you that's the argument you should be making because it has some traction.  I've already told you I could get a PC for $800 that would surf the web and play WoW as well as my Mac Pro.  That doesn't mean that there's no difference of course - there are things I could theoretically do with the Mac that I wouldn't be able to with the $800 PC.

And finally:

I've also put a nick in your "no bloatware" argument: they wouldn't dare, because they've bloated the components so much already.

You're deeper in the deep end here, since no one has mentioned bloatware at all here.

[Barrister]

Yeah we're gonna run it up to the Apple store this weekend.  It's sort of a strange thing.  It will properly work for ~an hour after the factory reset thing that clears everything out, but it just won't...stick.

Heh.  Mine works fine though. 

That's weird.  So the sound will work for an hour or so, then it will stop again?

Of course you won't get that much sympathy from me, since I can't even get an iPhone living in the Yukon. Stupid Rogers not having service in the Yukon.

[DisturbedPervert]

I've already told you I could get a PC for $800 that would surf the web and play WoW as well as my Mac Pro.

$800!?  You don't need to spend anywhere even remotely close to that on a PC that will surf the web and play WoW.

[DontSayBanana]

$800!?  You don't need to spend anywhere even remotely close to that on a PC that will surf the web and play WoW.

He seems to have this idea that we should encourage price gouging for brand names.