Scotland released Pan Am 103 bomber

[Ed Anger]

Good. Showing compassion to a deadly ill man is what any good Christian or Humanist should do.

Compassion? We're talking about the SCOTS here, for deity's sake. It's cheaper to give him a plane ticket than pay for medical care for a dying man.

[Warspite]

Good. Showing compassion to a deadly ill man is what any good Christian or Humanist should do.

Compassion? We're talking about the SCOTS here, for deity's sake. It's cheaper to give him a plane ticket than pay for medical care for a dying man.

[Neil]

Good. Showing compassion to a deadly ill man is what any good Christian or Humanist should do.

Compassion? We're talking about the SCOTS here, for deity's sake. It's cheaper to give him a plane ticket than pay for medical care for a dying man.

Those are the old Scots.  The new Scots are something different.

[Agelastus]

Those are the old Scots.  The new Scots are something different.

You obviously haven't met my relatives.

[DontSayBanana]

No.  It declares there is not sufficient proof to convict.  They may or may not be innocent.

Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine.  People may try and claim an aquittal as some kind of vindication, but that is not the intent.

Agreed. I singled out double jeopardy because if a prosecutor makes his best case, but it falls through on one little thing, the court is convinced he's innocent, and all the evidence that could have made the case can never be used again under double jeopardy rules (plus the massive burden of new evidence required simply to pass double jeopardy). Since the judge would be the only one who can decide to dismiss it without prejudice, it could create the appearance of judicial bias, and defense would almost certainly move for a mistrial when it was revisited.

[Eddie Teach]

Agreed. I singled out double jeopardy because if a prosecutor makes his best case, but it falls through on one little thing, the court is convinced he's innocent, and all the evidence that could have made the case can never be used again under double jeopardy rules (plus the massive burden of new evidence required simply to pass double jeopardy). Since the judge would be the only one who can decide to dismiss it without prejudice, it could create the appearance of judicial bias, and defense would almost certainly move for a mistrial when it was revisited.

And society has decided it's better for a few guilty people to go free for this reason than for the government to be able to keep a person on trial indefinitely.

[The Minsky Moment]

As I said, it would have its place, but only in addressing where a flimsy reasonable doubt defense was used to exploit double jeopardy.

This is a bit of a strawman - OJ nothwithstanding, the cases in which a plainly guilty person gets off because some hot shot defense lawyer mesmerizes a jury with a "flimsy reasonable doubt defense" are slightly more common than valid unicorn sightings, but not much.  Most defense lawyers would probably tell you they avoid closing with a big emphasis on "reasonable doubt" where feasible b/c it is a signal to the jury your guy is guilty.  Certainly conviction rates for most US prosecutorial offices do not give the impression that this is anywhere near a rampant problem.

And when I think of the word "exploit" used in relation to double jeopardy, it is in connection with the various dodges used by the government to get around it (eg having a different sovereign charge the same substantive conduct).  Not in connection with its appropriate use by a defendant as a constitutional bar as intended.

[Malthus]

Leaving aside the crime, the verdict and punishment of this man, the Scotish AG's (Pros.Fis. ?)  20-25 minutes of windbaggery explaining, what he clearly thought was a solomonic decision was appalling. With politicians like this the Scots are buggered, especially if they choose 'independence.'

That's nothing new - it was Scottish politicians that ended "independence" in the first place, by buggering up everything. 

They are the original "parcel of rogues". 

1.
Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory!
Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name.
Sae famed in martial story!
Now Sark rins over Salway sands,
An' Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where England's province stands --
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!
2.
What force or guile could not subdue
Thro' many warlike ages
Is wrought now by a coward few
For hireling traitor's wages.
The English steel we could disdain,
Secure in valour's station;
But English gold has been our bane --
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!
3.
O, would, or I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My auld grey head had lien in clay
Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour
I'll mak this declaration :-
'We're bought and sold for English gold'--
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

[Siege]

Those are the old Scots.  The new Scots are something different.

You obviously haven't met my relatives.

I love your avatar.

[CountDeMoney]

About fucking time, pal.  And still fuck you Scotland and your Euroweenie sympathizers.

Lockerbie bomber al-Megrahi dies in Libya after long battle with cancer

By NBC News, msnbc.com and news services

Updated at 3:30 p.m. ET: TRIPOLI - The former Libyan intelligence officer convicted of the 1988 Lockerbie bombing that killed 270 people has died, his son told NBC News on Sunday. He was 60.

Abdel Baset al-Megrahi died at home after his health quickly deteriorated. "He has been suffering from cancer for a long time and God choose him," Khalid al-Magrahi told NBC.

"He was too sick to utter anything on his death bed," his brother Abdel Hakim told Reuters. "Just because Abdel Baset is dead doesn't mean the past is now erased. We will always tell the world that my brother was innocent.''

Al-Megrahi was convicted in 2001 of the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 as it flew to New York from London. All 259 people aboard the airliner were killed and 11 others on the ground in the town of Lockerbie, Scotland, died from falling wreckage.

Scotland freed him in 2009 on compassionate grounds because he was suffering from advanced terminal prostate cancer and thought to have months to live.

His release angered many relatives of the victims, 189 of whom were American, and the Obama administration criticized the decision.

Many speculated that a backdoor deal had been cut between the former regime of Moammar Gadhafi and the British government. With the fall of the Gadhafi regime in 2011, many in the U.S. and U.K. called on the new Libyan leaders to extradite Megrahi to serve out the remainder of his prison term, something Libya's ruling National Transitional Council refused to do.

Al-Megrahi, who served as an intelligence agent during the rule of Gadhafi, denied any role in suspected human rights abuses in his home country before Gadhafi's fall and death in a popular uprising last year.

In April, al-Megrahi's condition worsened and he was taken to a private hospital to receive a transfusion of eleven liters of blood, but subsequently felt strong enough to return home.

Megrahi's older brother, Mohamed, said the funeral will be after the noon prayer on Monday. He will be buried in Al Zagawani cemetary in Janzour, 12 miles west of Tripoli. Megrahi's house was filled Sunday with family members, relatives and neighbors paying condolences, NBC News reported.

The White House said that the death would not end the quest for justice for the families of the 270 people killed.

"Megrahi's death concludes an unfortunate chapter following his release from prison in 2009 on medical grounds - a move we strongly opposed,'' said White House National Security Council spokesman Tommy Vietor.

"We want to see justice for the victims of the Lockerbie bombing and their families. We will continue working with our new partners in Libya toward a full accounting of Gadhafi's horrific acts,'' Vietor said.

U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer on Sunday criticized the Scottish government for allowing al-Megrahi to die a free man in what he said "smelled of a deal for oil.''

Schumer, a New York Democrat, said on CNN that the death of al-Megrahi meant the full truth about the Pan Am bombing may never be known.

"Both the Scottish and British governments have not been forthcoming,'' Schumer said. "The whole deal smelled of a deal for oil for this man's freedom and that was almost blasphemy given what a horrible person he was and the terrible destruction and tragedy that he caused. I don't know if we'll ever get to the bottom of it now.''

British Prime Minister David Cameron, who was in opposition when al-Megrahi was freed, said in Chicago, where he was attending the NATO summit: "I've always been clear he should never have been released from prison.

''Today is a day to remember the 270 people who lost their lives in what was an appalling terrorist act. Our thoughts should be with them and their families for the suffering they've had."

Jim Swire, the father of one of the British Lockerbie victims, said he was convinced al-Megrahi was innocent.

''I've been satisfied for some years that this man had nothing to do with the murder of my daughter and I grit my teeth every time I hear newscasters say 'Lockerbie bomber has died,'" he told BBC News television. ''This is a sad day."

[garbon]

Having re-read this so nicely re-animated thread, my only thought is that I'd like to get me some Scottish values.

[Razgovory]

About fucking time, pal.  And still fuck you Scotland and your Euroweenie sympathizers.

Lockerbie bomber al-Megrahi dies in Libya after long battle with cancer

Bet he didn't think he'd out live Gaddafi.  The new Libyan government missed a golden opportunity.  The US would have been willing to pay a high price for him.  Loans, military aid, trade deals.  The guy was worth a lot.