Converting to Judaism in ancient times

[Sheilbh]

It may be "boring", but trying to come up with needlessly complicated and obscure definitions and barriers on who is or is not a Christian seems to have little point.

Doesn't Christian thinking consider the complicated and obscure definitions and barriers as forming the difference between salvation and damnation?

[Malthus]

I think if someone calls themselves a "Jew for Jesus" you know exactly where they stand.  I don't see how it could be fraudulent.

They claim to be actual Jews, when in fact they are some sort of Baptists.

[Barrister]

I think if someone calls themselves a "Jew for Jesus" you know exactly where they stand.  I don't see how it could be fraudulent.

They claim to be actual Jews, when in fact they are some sort of Baptists.

No, they claim to be a "Jew for Jesus".  You'd have to live under a rock to not understand where they are coming from.

Again if they want to use the word Jew - let them!  I'm not saying you have to let them pray at your local Temple or anything.

[Barrister]

It may be "boring", but trying to come up with needlessly complicated and obscure definitions and barriers on who is or is not a Christian seems to have little point.

Doesn't Christian thinking consider the complicated and obscure definitions and barriers as forming the difference between salvation and damnation?

Some Christian thinking, yes.  Generally not the thinking I spend a lot of time listening to. 

[crazy canuck]

It may be "boring", but trying to come up with needlessly complicated and obscure definitions and barriers on who is or is not a Christian seems to have little point.

Its a laudable goal but put in the historical context of christianity you statement makes no sense.  Chrstianity has always defined itself as being something other and many have battled and died over who can come within that definition.

[Malthus]

I think if someone calls themselves a "Jew for Jesus" you know exactly where they stand.  I don't see how it could be fraudulent.

They claim to be actual Jews, when in fact they are some sort of Baptists.

No, they claim to be a "Jew for Jesus".  You'd have to live under a rock to not understand where they are coming from.

Again if they want to use the word Jew - let them!  I'm not saying you have to let them pray at your local Temple or anything.

Their purpose is to convert Jews by claiming that you can be Jewish and still believe Jesus is the Messiah.

I agree that it is ludicrous, but that doesn't change what they are doing.

[Barrister]

It may be "boring", but trying to come up with needlessly complicated and obscure definitions and barriers on who is or is not a Christian seems to have little point.

Its a laudable goal but put in the historical context of christianity you statement makes no sense.  Chrstianity has always defined itself as being something other and many have battled and died over who can come within that definition.

Your historical point is of course correct, but I'm not sure how it's important today.

Just because Arianism (to pick from amongst many, many examples) caused significant bloodshed back in the day doesn't mean it needs to be a significant issue now.

[Queequeg]

Minsky and Malthus; if this hypothetical "Jew for Jesus" followed all the Mosaic laws and respected (and studied) the Talmud in addition to the new testement, and was matrlineally okay, could they then be a Jew and a Christian simultaneously? I think the Ebionites and earliest Christians would take exception to the idea that the two religious labels are totally mutually exclusive.

[Barrister]

No, they claim to be a "Jew for Jesus".  You'd have to live under a rock to not understand where they are coming from.

Again if they want to use the word Jew - let them!  I'm not saying you have to let them pray at your local Temple or anything.

Their purpose is to convert Jews by claiming that you can be Jewish and still believe Jesus is the Messiah.

I agree that it is ludicrous, but that doesn't change what they are doing.

If someone believes they are Jewish and believe in Jesus, who am I to tell them that their belief is wrong?

[Valmy]

No, they claim to be a "Jew for Jesus".  You'd have to live under a rock to not understand where they are coming from.

Again if they want to use the word Jew - let them!  I'm not saying you have to let them pray at your local Temple or anything.

They are using it in an intentional misleading way.  They whole  point of Jew for Jesus is to mislead Jews and get them to convert to what is basically Christianity.  It is funded and run by evangelical Christian groups.

I was not aware Malthus had the power to force anybody to use or not use words so why are you encouraging him to "let them" is Malthus the freaking dictator of Toronto or something?  He certainly is allowed to have an opinion on what people choose to call themselves.

[Valmy]

If someone believes they are Jewish and believe in Jesus, who am I to tell them that their belief is wrong?

What?  I feel it is the right of everybody to have an opinion and thoughts on beliefs.  Why shouldn't I believe somebody's beliefs are wrong if I indeed think that?

[Barrister]

I was not aware Malthus had the power to force anybody to use or not use words so why are you encouraging him to "let them" is Malthus the freaking dictator of Toronto or something?  He certainly is allowed to have an opinion on what people choose to call themselves.

He is allowed to have an opinion, and I am allowed to tell him his opinion is wrong. 

[Valmy]

Minsky and Malthus; if this hypothetical "Jew for Jesus" followed all the Mosaic laws and respected (and studied) the Talmud in addition to the new testement, and was matrlineally okay, could they then be a Jew and a Christian simultaneously? I think the Ebionites and earliest Christians would take exception to the idea that the two religious labels are totally mutually exclusive.

This is a hypothetical person because 'Jews for Jesus' specifically deny the Talmud.

Now a Jew who happens to have beliefs identical to the very early Jewish Christianity thing?  I have never heard of such a group but they would probably be disowned by both modern Jews and Christians.

[Valmy]

He is allowed to have an opinion, and I am allowed to tell him his opinion is wrong. 

Your opinion seems based on ignorance and misinformation to me.  That is exactly what Jews for Jesus is all about though.

[Queequeg]

No, they claim to be a "Jew for Jesus".  You'd have to live under a rock to not understand where they are coming from.

Again if they want to use the word Jew - let them!  I'm not saying you have to let them pray at your local Temple or anything.

Their purpose is to convert Jews by claiming that you can be Jewish and still believe Jesus is the Messiah.

I agree that it is ludicrous, but that doesn't change what they are doing.

If someone believes they are Jewish and believe in Jesus, who am I to tell them that their belief is wrong?

I don't think some 6'1 300 pound blonde southerner isn't a Cohen just because he thinks he is. There's a raher arduous conversion process into Judaism for just that reason.  Though I'm not sure why anyone would claim to be a Jew rather than just the descendant of the Ancient Israelites like some whacko groups.