Evolution making women more beautiful, men remain as ugly as ever

[Valmy]

Berkut touched upon that. Also as a real life example, Angelina and her brother. Very similar features that some find beautiful on Angelina, but few find beautiful on her brother.

Yeah well...color me unconvinced by that.  I bet there are some unattractive women in Angelina's family whose similar features don't work for them either.

[garbon]

Yeah well...color me unconvinced by that.  I bet there are some unattractive women in Angelina's family whose similar features don't work for them either.

I was just answering to your question of how that is possible. I'm not trying to convince you of something I'm not convinced by.

[Valmy]

I was just answering to your question of how that is possible. I'm not trying to convince you of something I'm not convinced by.

Gotcha.

[Josephus]

Are the genes that make women attractive different genes?  Why wouldn't the father's ugly genes also make his daughters ugly?  Why wouldn't the mother's attractive genes make her sons attractive?

Doesn't Darwin's theory of natural selection, or something, explain this? Aren't bad genes discarded along the way?

[Drakken]

Probably because human males, like most primates, do not depend on looks to pass up their genes, but on being Alpha males, thus good on gathering resources to rear offspring and their leadership qualities to defend their territores.

Which is why totally ugly men, but with alpha qualities and/or lots of money, still attract sexy chicks despite Hollywood and WB series depicting otherwise.

[Martinus]

I think it means that natural selection will select for attractive women and not necessarily for attractive men. Which means the genes of attractive men will not necessarily get passed that much more often, thus keeping the number of attractive men at the same level.

Are the genes that make women attractive different genes?  Why wouldn't the father's ugly genes also make his daughters ugly?  Why wouldn't the mother's attractive genes make her sons attractive?

Yeah, that's the question you should have been asking in the first place.

I don't know but I'd imagine they could be quite different. For example square jaws and big noses can make men attractive but women not so. And from a purely anecdotal experience (having seen a number of siblings of different sexes), it seems that in many cases they share common appearance traits irrespective of their gender.

[Valmy]

Doesn't Darwin's theory of natural selection, or something, explain this? Aren't bad genes discarded along the way?

Only if you consider genes that keep you from reproducing as much as "bad" and in that sense yes.

[Maximus]

What makes you think there are ugly genes and pretty genes anyway? Surely attractiveness is more than a simple sum of the parts.

[Drakken]

What makes you think there are ugly genes and pretty genes anyway? Surely attractiveness is more than a simple sum of the parts.

Symmetry is a fundamental feature of attractiveness, more than the sum of the parts. If the sum is asymetrical, unless it is corrected the person is less likely to attract a partner than if he or she is symmetrical. Also, "ugly" and rough features are also part of evolution, as it makes a male more intimidating, and thus help him defend his territory and his resources against aggressors.

It is a very modern evolution of thought-process that imposed a model of "attractive males" which serve as a reference, from with women reject non-corresponding males outright as unattractive. Passivity among males is now encouraged. Males are not expected to defend physically a territory where they gather resources anymore. Now they sell off their force of work to gather money and provide for their families. That is a very, very fundamental change for evolution in sexual roles.

Also, male aggressivity and intimidation is nowadays discouraged except in necessary self-defence circumstances. Even when AMOGs attempt to steal a girl you are attempting to pick up, it is now discouraged to physically intervene to prevent it, while in the past it would be a bloody battle until of the males was beaten to a pulp or dead, and the female would go with the winner without even lifting a eyebrow.

Just as, for females, only recently (like since the last century) have males started to reject curvy, well-in-flesh women as being fatsos, when in the past they were considered the most healthy and fertile women and, thus, the most attractive. In contrast, skinny women were considered as useless because their body couldn't be expected to handle numerous pregnancies, and they hadn't the physical force to handle working around the house and help raising the kids without being sickly all the time.

[garbon]

Probably because human males, like most primates, do not depend on looks to pass up their genes, but on being Alpha males, thus good on gathering resources to rear offspring and their leadership qualities to defend their territores.

Which is why totally ugly men, but with alpha qualities and/or lots of money, still attract sexy chicks despite Hollywood and WB series depicting otherwise.

Haven't we heard enough of your relationship theories?

[Drakken]

Probably because human males, like most primates, do not depend on looks to pass up their genes, but on being Alpha males, thus good on gathering resources to rear offspring and their leadership qualities to defend their territores.

Which is why totally ugly men, but with alpha qualities and/or lots of money, still attract sexy chicks despite Hollywood and WB series depicting otherwise.

Haven't we heard enough of your relationship theories?

Just don't read, then. No one is forcing you.

[garbon]

Just don't read, then. No one is forcing you.

Lies.

[garbon]

And I'm just tired of the seduction community propaganda.

[Valmy]

Just as, for females, only recently (like since the last century) have males started to reject curvy, well-in-flesh women as being fatsos, when in the past they were considered the most healthy and fertile women and, thus, the most attractive. In contrast, skinny women were considered as useless because their body couldn't be expected to handle numerous pregnancies, and they hadn't the physical force to handle working around the house and help raising the kids without being sickly all the time.

Ok skinny women are now some sort of ideal, which is sad, but men hardly reject curvy women.  That is bullshit we love us some curvy women but they just are not on the cover of Vogue.  Who cares?  What dude reads Vogue?  Comic book fantasy girls have ridiculous tits and hips (and absurdly tiny waists) and the whole deal.  We love it baby.

Also skinny women got lots of play back in the day.  Heck people were far far far faaaaaar more skinny back in the 19th century so that kinda shits all over your theory.  If women are becoming skinnier then why are they, in fact, becoming far faaaaar fatter?

Besides if we loved our women so fat why did we make them wear corsets?

[jimmy olsen]

Just as, for females, only recently (like since the last century) have males started to reject curvy, well-in-flesh women as being fatsos, when in the past they were considered the most healthy and fertile women and, thus, the most attractive. In contrast, skinny women were considered as useless because their body couldn't be expected to handle numerous pregnancies, and they hadn't the physical force to handle working around the house and help raising the kids without being sickly all the time.

Ok skinny women are now some sort of ideal, which is sad, but men hardly reject curvy women.  That is bullshit we love us some curvy women but they just are not on the cover of Vogue.  Who cares?  What dude reads Vogue?  Comic book fantasy girls have ridiculous tits and hips (and absurdly tiny waists) and the whole deal.  We love it baby.

Also skinny women got lots of play back in the day.  Heck people were far far far faaaaaar more skinny back in the 19th century so that kinda shits all over your theory.  If women are becoming skinnier then why are they, in fact, becoming far faaaaar fatter?

Besides if we loved our women so fat why did we make them wear corsets?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF9QI18-Bpo