A glance at HoI3

[garbon]

I understand. I've made no new engine purchases.

[Darth Wagtaros]

I understand. I've made no new engine purchases.

Good man.  We'll turn this whole thing around, one non-purchase at a time.

[Josquius]

One thing we learned from HOI2 is that its released when they need to meet a financial deadline, not when the game is necessarily in shape for the marketplace.  That attitude is a cancer in the software industry.

Well they are businesses.  Can't very well say, no pay checks for the next few months guys, the product isn't ready.

I realize that in the intellectual sense.  As a consumer (or a sysadmin being given responsibility for a new product to support)I have a problem with paying money for something that has problems out of the box, problems that the vendor knew about and decided to adopt an attitude that 'we'll fix it later', after they get my payment.  I don't mean obscure or rare problems that could crop up in any complex system, but stuff like the entire fucking Luftwaffe flying off to be destroyed over Scotland because the flight AI is screwed from the start.  Or this IC thing.

Most other industries can't get away with this shit. Imagine selling TV's that will suddenly shut off after 15 minutes of use and telling customers that its "just a bug and a patch will be released in a few days."  Or an entire line of cars that are shipped with only three tires, ya gonna tell the customers that they'll receive the fourth in the mail?  I sometimes feel that way when talking with developers. 

Aye, such is the problem with software in general. Coding is a imprecise art.
I don't think its entirely fair to compare them to other goods like TVs but...certainly games should be tested more thoroughly before release. Taking for instance the software used in power stations as a comparison is fairer. It doesn't have to be near this massive level (or else testing will dwarf actually making it...) but the current situation is lame.

But...people keep buying. They've no reason to change.
Anyone have a clue what the sales figures of paradox games are? Was EU3 their biggest ever? Is this on course to be?

[Ideologue]

And Japan, for that matter.  Even if far as effectiveness goes that may have been more of a matter of internal propaganda--but anticommunism was an aggressively-pushed rationale for the war in China.

To be fair, Japan used just about everything as a propaganda to support the war.  It was anti-communist, anti-warlord, a mission civilisatrice, anti-imperialist, and pan-Asiatic.

Valid point.  At least they were actually anticommunist, though--they surely weren't anti-imperialist unless you define the term rather weirdly.

It's interesting, there are some parallels that can be drawn between Japan's pan-Asian propaganda and various third world liberation movements later, e.g., pan-Asianism and pan-Arabism both effectively serving as justifications for imperialism (in Egypt's case, at the expense of Syria and and of course Israel) as well as the military's effective control over policy.  RotWers: never learn?

[dps]

One thing we learned from HOI2 is that its released when they need to meet a financial deadline, not when the game is necessarily in shape for the marketplace.  That attitude is a cancer in the software industry.

Well they are businesses.  Can't very well say, no pay checks for the next few months guys, the product isn't ready.

I realize that in the intellectual sense.  As a consumer (or a sysadmin being given responsibility for a new product to support)I have a problem with paying money for something that has problems out of the box, problems that the vendor knew about and decided to adopt an attitude that 'we'll fix it later', after they get my payment.  I don't mean obscure or rare problems that could crop up in any complex system, but stuff like the entire fucking Luftwaffe flying off to be destroyed over Scotland because the flight AI is screwed from the start.  Or this IC thing.

Most other industries can't get away with this shit. Imagine selling TV's that will suddenly shut off after 15 minutes of use and telling customers that its "just a bug and a patch will be released in a few days."  Or an entire line of cars that are shipped with only three tires, ya gonna tell the customers that they'll receive the fourth in the mail?  I sometimes feel that way when talking with developers. 

Aye, such is the problem with software in general. Coding is a imprecise art.
I don't think its entirely fair to compare them to other goods like TVs but...certainly games should be tested more thoroughly before release. Taking for instance the software used in power stations as a comparison is fairer. It doesn't have to be near this massive level (or else testing will dwarf actually making it...) but the current situation is lame.

But...people keep buying. They've no reason to change.
Anyone have a clue what the sales figures of paradox games are? Was EU3 their biggest ever? Is this on course to be?

The growth of the internet is partly to blame for the current situation.  Back in the early-to-mid nineties, buggy games quit selling pretty quickly through bad word of mouth, because the only way most people had to patch them was if the publisher mailed them a patch disc.  As the internet became more popular, it became practical to download patches--which was a good thing, but it had the bad side-effect that publishers could now more easily wave off problems by saying, "Oh, we'll fix that with a patch".

I think EUIII was the best-selling game that Paradox has done, but I'm not sure.  I have no idea if HOI3 is on target to sell more.

[Kleves]

HoI3 got an 8.5 from gamespot. 

[Habbaku]

HoI3 got an 8.5 from gamespot. 

Swedish bribes are still working.

[garbon]

Events never stray very far from the plausible, either, which makes games captivating for alt-history fans.

[Razgovory]

HoI3 got an 8.5 from gamespot. 

Swedish bribes are still working.

I didn't think they still even reviewed PC games.

[Viking]

HoI3 got an 8.5 from gamespot. 

Swedish bribes are still working.

8.5 Steel per day in exchange for Good Reviews?

[Norgy]

Either the AI is handing out military access like its expiry date is next week or there is some silliness like unlimited AI naval range again.

As the US, I expect the first invasion to be in the Philipines. I do not expect it to be by an Italian division. 

The threat system, which seems like a great idea really, makes for weird results. Germany is very, very scary to the French, so they just mass all they have on the Maginot line, forgetting Italy is in the Axis. A week after war breaks out, Balbo and Graziani welcome the Duce to Paris to have some wine and cheese and check out the Louvre. And, the UK thinks Italia is really, really frightening and put all their forces in Egypt and leave it to Winston's killer speeches to stave off the Germans. The Germans bathe their feet in the finest whisky two months later, while the Royal Navy is patrolling the waters outside of Honshu.

I also quite did not except Anchorage to fall to the Wehrmacht. But, life, especially in HoI3, is full of surprises.



All this has led me to believe I might want to wait for a patch before I try my hands at this again. The tech tree, or tech forest really, is great, the new system of HQs and stuff too, but really, Italians attacking Manila? 

[Tamas]

There is unlimited naval range for the AI. I hope its just by lack of time to code a proper naval AI and will be changed.

[Norgy]

There is unlimited naval range for the AI. I hope its just by lack of time to code a proper naval AI and will be changed.

Yeah, I realised that when Ranger Taskforce barely could make it out of Norfolk before having to refuel. 

[Warspite]

To be honest I'd rather something easily modable, like the AI (which is script-based, no?) is broken, rather than the underlying mechanics.

[bogh]

Most other industries can't get away with this shit. Imagine selling TV's that will suddenly shut off after 15 minutes of use and telling customers that its "just a bug and a patch will be released in a few days." 

Get used to the thought. TVs are are becoming pretty complicated and there are tons of software-failures in modern TVs. HDMI-protocols not working, tuners malfunctioning, channel placement wrong, DVB-subtitling not working etc. Sony/Samsung/etc. spend are moving into the update business big time (socalled Over the Air agreements with network providers) and internet connectivity will only hasten that trend.