Why Obama's Plans are Stalled

[katmai]

Has anybody seen Hans or Derspicy around here? or are they busy shouting at town hall meetings?

[Sheilbh]

Big majorities are always going to find you choking on moderates.  If the Democrats turn on their moderates they will simply hand control back over to the Republicans...who will then have the same problem.

It seems like a lefty problem.  I don't remember Bush having to deal with an influential group of moderates from 2002-06.  It reminds me of the old Tony Benn line.  The Labour party elects a leader and then argues with them, vigorously and publically until that leader chooses to step down.  The Tories elect a leader and then applaud them vigorously and near-constantly, until they plunge the dagger into their back.

Edit:  Except for Social Security which was 2005, I think immigration reform was the same period.  So he got a good 3 years of a relatively acquiescent party, indeed I don't think they were terribly difficult in 2000-02 either.

[Caliga]

Has anybody seen Hans or Derspicy around here? or are they busy shouting at town hall meetings?

I think spiess is on a business trip.  No clue about Hans.

[alfred russel]

The democrats are stalling because they insist on driving wimpy hybrids.

[crazy canuck]

The democrats are stalling because they insist on driving wimpy hybrids.

Bah, I kind of like my new Camry Hybrid.

[Caliga]

Bah, I kind of like my new Camry Hybrid.

Funny, I never took you for a DAMN DIRTY HIPPY. 

[Admiral Yi]

Has anybody seen Hans or Derspicy around here? or are they busy shouting at town hall meetings?

Speesh posted not too long ago.

It just struck me that our two most conservative posters are both race traitors.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

well... who exactly figured Obama was going to "change" everything in the first six months.

He does actually have a minimum of 4 years. 6 months in and he hasn't radically changed a polarized annoyed country out of it's horrific economic and cultural crisis? wow what a chump.

[Admiral Yi]

well... who exactly figured Obama was going to "change" everything in the first six months.

I talked to several Obama voters during the campaign who said the reason they were voting for him was because he "was going to change things."

You can also see the disappointment among some supporters like Fate and Feelin.

[viper37]

Take note of how dealers were forced to close, lose their assets, everything, in a week or so. That kind of thing. I heard similar on the various news channels when it was happening and it had me surprised then. I can only imagine massive lawsuits by these dealers.

I just wonder, what do you guys think? What have you heard, for or against the closings and such?

With gov help: some dealers were forced to close, lose their assets, everything, in a week or so.
Withouth gov help: all dealers were forced to close, lose their assets, everything, in a week or so.

Really, GM was near bankruptcy.  There was very little economic reasons to help GM, but let's see what would have happenned to the dealers without gov help for GM:

1- GM goes into bankruptcy.
2- GM tries to negotiate itself out of bankruptcy, but without the power of the US Gov to back it up, many feel it's time to cut their losses and let GM go rather than risk losing even more in the future.
OR
2a - GM sucessfully restructurates itself without any gov help.

So what happens for #3?
There's too many dealers, too many models, not enough sales.  So dealers are forced to close.

Ford did exactly the same a few years ago, but since there were no financial crisis at the time, they were able to re-negotiate their debts at the time, something GM/Chrysler could never have done on their own this year.

10 years ago, there were 4 Ford dealers in a 70km radius, 2 in a 20km radius.
Now the nearest one is over 100km away.

So, that's what happens when a company is forced to "restructurate" itself.  They eliminate less profitable models, they eliminate/merge sales point.  With or without government help, that happens.

Now, assuming there was 100% chance of GM going bankrupt and closing shop without GOV help, what happens to dealers?  Can you be a GM dealer if you can't seel any new GM models?  Who would buy a brand new GM knowing there is absolutely no warranty?  I'd probably pay 20k$ for a vehicle worth 35k$, but the dealer would absorb the loss and still go bankrupt in the end...

Really, I don't get why they are complaining to the government about that.
Around here, some GM dealers have simply switched banners and/or sued GM for breach of contract in some cases.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

well... who exactly figured Obama was going to "change" everything in the first six months.

I talked to several Obama voters during the campaign who said the reason they were voting for him was because he "was going to change things."

You can also see the disappointment among some supporters like Fate and Feelin.

and they were stupid enough to think he could wade through all the bullshit party ppolitics(from all sides it's a bureaucracy first and foremost) and fix the world's largest economy overnight? my opinion of those posters has fallen further.

[KRonn]

With gov help: some dealers were forced to close, lose their assets, everything, in a week or so.
Withouth gov help: all dealers were forced to close, lose their assets, everything, in a week or so.

I think this is the crux of the issue. GM was going through government controlled bankruptcy, but some, or many, dealers which are private businesses, were forced to close down and lose everything, plus some forced to give their customer lists to others, and what ever else mandated, all in a very short time. Did some dealers lose their entire business, assets, -millions of dollars for some? Looks like it and that's at least part of the complaints I heard the Congress woman saying, plus on news reports. Why did the dealers, independent businesses, have to just shut down so fast and lose so much in the process? If GM isn't going to deal with them anymore ok, but forcing them to shut down so quickly, many of them losing assets, is just wrong headed, ugly.

Also on the youtube the Congress woman talks of some dealers being able to wheel and deal if they had a strong Democrat Congress member representing them.

I'll wait for more on this to come out, but it sure looks like it was done pretty heavy handedly, pretty badly managed.

[garbon]

and they were stupid enough to think he could wade through all the bullshit party ppolitics(from all sides it's a bureaucracy first and foremost) and fix the world's largest economy overnight? my opinion of those posters has fallen further.

You'd think there would be some indication that he'll one day be able to make change happen.

[Sheilbh]

Also on the youtube the Congress woman talks of some dealers being able to wheel and deal if they had a strong Democrat Congress member representing them.

That Congresswoman is Michelle Bachmann.  She verges to the occassionally nutty.  She said that the Americorps bill, which Orrin Hatch said was the most bipartisanly supported bill he can think of, contained provisions for 'compulsory' 're-education camps' for young people.  She spent her time in Committee questioning Ben Bernanke and Tim Geithner to see whether or not they support a 'global currency'.  She's said she want's a committee to investigate anti-Americanism in Congress, though she retracted that comment.  She does sometimes make rather odd comments and I wouldn't really consider her reliable.  From what I've seen of her she's only slightly more sane than Glen Beck.