Khamenei spits in Obama's face

[Neil]

Not sure what you are saying.

That the Iranian government is more representative of the Iranian people than other governments.  Especially Obama, who is scum.

It doesn't, which is the point.  China is more "democratic" than Iran.  Talk to people who have been there recently.  Basically, the Iranian people (with some notable exceptions) pretty much dismiss anyone who is acceptable to the clerics as either a paid-for crook or a religious loon.

Anecdotal evidence is insufficient to convince me that Iranians are humans who are afflicted with a terrible government which has almost no support.  The Iranians get the government they deserve, and it is the Iranian people who are our enemies.

[AnchorClanker]

The government is as close a thing as there is. 

Not sure what you are saying.

And that's making the assumption that the opinion of the Iranian people matters, which is arguable.

It doesn't, which is the point.  China is more "democratic" than Iran.  Talk to people who have been there recently.  Basically, the Iranian people (with some notable exceptions) pretty much dismiss anyone who is acceptable to the clerics as either a paid-for crook or a religious loon.

Precisely.  Anyone acceptable to the clerics is somewhat suspect as a 'reformer'.
That being said, it's sad that Khatami dropped out of the elections, as he didn't want the reformist vote split between
two candidates.

[Razgovory]

I misread this as "Khamenei sits on Obama's face".  Now that's "Absolutely Unacceptable!"

[fhdz]

I misread this as "Khamenei sits on Obama's face".  Now that's "Absolutely Unacceptable!"

Talk about changes in foreign policy!

[KRonn]

I heard on radio news that Chavez called Pres Obama an ignaramus? What's up with that?

[DontSayBanana]

I heard on radio news that Chavez called Pres Obama an ignaramus? What's up with that?

You know you've arrived once Chavez starts insulting you or accusing you of orchestrating coup attempts against him?

[KRonn]

I heard on radio news that Chavez called Pres Obama an ignaramus? What's up with that?

You know you've arrived once Chavez starts insulting you or accusing you of orchestrating coup attempts against him?

Hehe... true enough. So I guess Pres Chavez fears Pres Obama, after all, still the USA is out to get him (in Chavez's mind or otherwise), no matter the President. 

So then, Pres Obama has arrived, enough to be a "threat" (really a foil, deflection, for Chavez, eh?), so congratulations to Obama!

[Alatriste]

Eh, what Khamenei says isn't all that significant.  He is playing to the home crowd.  What Obama needs to do is ignore the government and appeal directly to the populace, remembering that 60% of the population there is under 30, and the voting age in Iran is 16.  Foreign policy via youtube is actually possible with that demographic.

Unfortunately Obama did the opposite by failing to draw a distinction between the gov't of Iran and the people of Iran.  Obama in his message accepted that the gov't of Iran represents the people.  Carteresque in its stupidity.

Let me guess: when the US did send olive branches to the USSR always started by insulting Soviet leadership. And I suppose Nixon started his honeymoon with Beijing by telling Mao and Chou En Lai that they were a couple of crooked, bloody tyrants hated by the Chinese people. Further and in the same vein I'm sure the first time Putin met Bush he opened the conversation by reminding him that actually most Americans voters liked better the other guy. Best way to break the ice in ages. 

I don't know if Obama will succeed or fail regarding Iran. But in diplomacy you have to bite your tongue, all too often with clenched fists, smile and tell a pretty lie twenty times for each one you get to speak openly the ugly truth.

Regarding Internet and youth all over the world, 'youtube diplomacy' can succeed even where there is no ample access to the Net (actually even Khomeini with his voice recordings can be said to have used a low-tech version of this direct appeal to the masses trick) but don't take anything for granted, the potential for misunderstandings and fausses passes is huge.

[Note: 'faux pas' is singular, 'fausses passes' is plural]

[grumbler]

Let me guess: when the US did send olive branches to the USSR always started by insulting Soviet leadership. And I suppose Nixon started his honeymoon with Beijing by telling Mao and Chou En Lai that they were a couple of crooked, bloody tyrants hated by the Chinese people. Further and in the same vein I'm sure the first time Putin met Bush he opened the conversation by reminding him that actually most Americans voters liked better the other guy. Best way to break the ice in ages. 

I don't know if Obama will succeed or fail regarding Iran. But in diplomacy you have to bite your tongue, all too often with clenched fists, smile and tell a pretty lie twenty times for each one you get to speak openly the ugly truth.

Regarding Internet and youth all over the world, 'youtube diplomacy' can succeed even where there is no ample access to the Net (actually even Khomeini with his voice recordings can be said to have used a low-tech version of this direct appeal to the masses trick) but don't take anything for granted, the potential for misunderstandings and fausses passes is huge.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.  Obama was not trying to get Iran to do anything, so there was no particular reason to sweet-talk the Iranian government or the clerical overgovernment.  A much more efective message for him to send would have been one to the Iranian people, explaining that he understood their aspirations, and that he recognized their frustration both with their own lack of voice, and with the previous administration's lumping of all Iranians into the "Axis of Terror." 

Sweet words will not alleviate Khameni's or Amadinajhad's need to play the US as a great threat that justifies Iranian government oppression.  At the same time, speaking directly to the Iranian people will not cause the Iranian government and overgovernment to reject cooperation with the US when Iranian interests direct it (as in Iraq and Afghanistan).

Obama offered the olive branch to the wrong people.  Ultimately, US policy is better-served by recognizing the divide between the Iranian government and its people than it is by pissing off the people by pretending that their government represents their interests.

[Neil]

[Note: 'faux pas' is singular, 'fausses passes' is plural]

Faux pas is both the singular and the plural.  'Pas' is a masculine noun, and thus when using the adjective 'faux' it would have to be 'faux' and not 'fausse'.

Moreover, I don't think 'passes' actually means anything, at least I've never heard it used before.  Maybe some kind of slang?

[Oexmelin]

Passes means a lot of things, none of them closely related with step (pas). The plural of faux pas is faux pas.

[grumbler]

[Note: 'faux pas' is singular, 'fausses passes' is plural]

Faux pas is both the singular and the plural.  'Pas' is a masculine noun, and thus when using the adjective 'faux' it would have to be 'faux' and not 'fausse'.

Moreover, I don't think 'passes' actually means anything, at least I've never heard it used before.  Maybe some kind of slang?

Nothing like being both pedantic and wrong! 

[Alatriste]

I have to disagree: searching for "Fausses passes" in Google throws 127,000 references, which seems a bit high for a supposed mistake (I know because I wasn't sure and I googled the term before posting  )

The first one, for example, is

http://www.journalletoile.com/article-302451-Attention-aux-fausses-passes.html

'Attention aux fausses passes'

And I wasn't correcting anyone, Grumbler... I just tought some of our fellows wouldn't understand the term.

Now, won't someone think of the Iranians?

[grumbler]

I have to disagree: searching for "Fausses passes" in Google throws 127,000 references, which seems a bit high for a supposed mistake (I know because I wasn't sure and I googled the term before posting  )

I have to disagree.  All the dictionaries (paper or online) are unanimous in their assertion that the plural of faux pas is faux pas.  See http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faux+pas and http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faux%20pas, for instance.

And I wasn't correcting anyone, Grumbler... I just tought some of our fellows wouldn't understand the term.

I wasn't saying that you were correcting anyone, I was just pointing out that you were being pedantic.  And that you were being wrong.  Neil was correcting you (personally, I seldom bother with such things, as the meaning was clear).

[Neil]

I have to disagree: searching for "Fausses passes" in Google throws 127,000 references, which seems a bit high for a supposed mistake (I know because I wasn't sure and I googled the term before posting  )

The first one, for example, is

http://www.journalletoile.com/article-302451-Attention-aux-fausses-passes.html

'Attention aux fausses passes'

Those aren't social missteps, thoses are fake passes for a Montreal-area ski hill.  'Passe' is a feminine noun, and so you could use 'fausse' with it.