Working From Home

[Darth Wagtaros]

I work at home two days a week.  I think I could go to three, but this is kind of enough right now.  I would hate to go back to in 5 days a week. 

I know people who got the back to the office crap. Three of them go in to a nearly empty building and jump on Teams calls with their team who may be in Europe or Cali or something. Stupid.

[Josquius]

There's a lot of resistance to this from employers.
Amazon is pressuring its employees to return to the office.  No promotions if they don't get back.
Zoom has ordered employees back to the office.
In Quebec, Mouvement Desjardins (biggest financial institution) has ordered most of its staff back to the office 3 days a week.

Like I said, lots of resistance everywhere.

The article mentions most places offering remote work have gone to a hybrid model. So at least your example from Quebec would be right in line with what the article has said is the new normal.

It's problematic for a lot of people who moved far away from the city, escaping the eternal torments of Hell.

What I fear is that this is the first step to a full "back to the office" order.  There's a lot of pressure from chambers of commerce on the governments and industry to order such back to work orders because city centers are becoming deserted.

I've mentioned this before but this is the big problem with remote work becoming such a thing. City centres are necessary for cities to continue to be a place and the footfall of workers is pretty vital to propping up so much of what makes them attractive, especially in these days of  online retail.

I do think the trends are that it's business parks suffering more, and good riddance, but I do fear I could be wrong and it's purely a few big local moves making it appear this way.

[Tamas]

Turn office blocks into affordable housing for the poor.

In terms of people going into empty offices, in Guardian comment sections over the years I noticed three reasons: no suitable WFH space at home (flatsharing would suck for it to be fair), lack of social life yet desiring one and instead of creating it latching onto colleagues to provide it, and wanting to be away from their own family.

Except for the lack of WFH options I have zero sympathy for these. Fix your own god damn life don't force me to do it for you.

[viper37]

Turn office blocks into affordable housing for the poor.

Some Canadian cities (Calgary, notably) have begun that, but it requires massive investments.  They aren't built the same way to begin with.

[MadImmortalMan]

Though I will say that I'm jealous of the young
It was a decade ago that being able to roll out of bed after 8 and live wherever I wanted that would have really saved me.

Seems like there's a story there. Maybe several.

[crazy canuck]

Turn office blocks into affordable housing for the poor.

Some Canadian cities (Calgary, notably) have begun that, but it requires massive investments.  They aren't built the same way to begin with.

Yeah, in a lot of cases it is less expensive to rip it down and construct a purpose built structure.  As just on example, installing the necessary plumbing for individual units is a huge cost when retro fitting an office tower for residential.

On the main topic a new survey out for Canada showed a majority of employees liked the full return best.  The next most favourable was hybrid and the least favoured was full remote.

It is important to note the full return  option included flexibility to WFH on occasion.  Something I think is widely done now in Canada.

[DGuller]

What annoys me about the whole debate is the bottomless pit of cynicism on the part of those resisting the return to office.  The conspiracy theory about RTO being a ploy to stop the slump in commercial real estate prices, the implications that managers want the workers back so that they could justify their existence, and so on... 

I really feel sorry for people whose life turned out in a way that makes them so cynical, but my take on the debate has also been colored by that.  I think the simple reality is that WFH may be a good deal to some workers, but it's probably a bad deal for the overall productivity of all workers, and it's definitely a bad deal for employees just entering the workforce.  When they don't even acknowledge that arguments for RTO can be made, regardless of where you think they fall in the balance of things, it makes me discount everything that they have to say.

[Barrister]

I really feel sorry for people whose life turned out in a way that makes them so cynical, but my take on the debate has also been colored by that.  I think the simple reality is that WFH may be a good deal to some workers, but it's probably a bad deal for the overall productivity of all workers, and it's definitely a bad deal for employees just entering the workforce.  When they don't even acknowledge that arguments for RTO can be made, regardless of where you think they fall in the balance of things, it makes me discount everything that they have to say.

So I really hate my commute.  It's 45 minutes of hell each way.  Ironically that was the one great thing about the pandemic.  After 2 weeks of working from home I said "screw this" and started going back to work - the fact there was no traffic to fight was amazing.

So my office has gone to a WFH option.  If I have court that must be done in person, but you do have the option of working from hom.  But I dislike working from home as a general rule (I do take advantage of it on occasion) because I find I really rely on being able to talk to my coworkers and colleagues.  I can't possibly imagine being a junior just starting out my career and trying to work from home.

[Tamas]

What annoys me about the whole debate is the bottomless pit of cynicism on the part of those resisting the return to office.  The conspiracy theory about RTO being a ploy to stop the slump in commercial real estate prices, the implications that managers want the workers back so that they could justify their existence, and so on... 

I really feel sorry for people whose life turned out in a way that makes them so cynical, but my take on the debate has also been colored by that.  I think the simple reality is that WFH may be a good deal to some workers, but it's probably a bad deal for the overall productivity of all workers, and it's definitely a bad deal for employees just entering the workforce.  When they don't even acknowledge that arguments for RTO can be made, regardless of where you think they fall in the balance of things, it makes me discount everything that they have to say.

Sure arguments can be made for RTO, there are few things in life that arguments can't be made for.

One thing you can be sure of though: there would have been a stronger push for RTO and less inclination for employees to stay in WFH, if productivity across the board slumped the way you claim. Decreased productivity not only shows up as decrease in profit on the employer's side it also manifests as more chaos and frustration on the employee side (in white collar jobs anyhow, but then again blue collar ones will never be WFH). However I suspect, most people, like me and my company, found that productivity does NOT, in fact, suffers.

Government being influenced by commercial real estate investors isn't a very far fetched theory, in the UK at least they are major donors not to mention politicians with actual investments.

Managers being frustrated by having it more difficult to feel in control both in terms of the challenge and the ability to drain some power trips from it isn't far-fetched either.

[Gups]

We're closing down the office in the New Year for six weeks for refurbishment and I'm not looking forward to it at all.

I enjoy being in the office although the cycle in during the winter isn't great. I do tend to be more productive at home though - at least in terms of getting stuff done.

[garbon]

What annoys me about the whole debate is the bottomless pit of cynicism on the part of those resisting the return to office.  The conspiracy theory about RTO being a ploy to stop the slump in commercial real estate prices, the implications that managers want the workers back so that they could justify their existence, and so on... 

I really feel sorry for people whose life turned out in a way that makes them so cynical, but my take on the debate has also been colored by that.  I think the simple reality is that WFH may be a good deal to some workers, but it's probably a bad deal for the overall productivity of all workers, and it's definitely a bad deal for employees just entering the workforce.  When they don't even acknowledge that arguments for RTO can be made, regardless of where you think they fall in the balance of things, it makes me discount everything that they have to say.

Sure arguments can be made for RTO, there are few things in life that arguments can't be made for.

One thing you can be sure of though: there would have been a stronger push for RTO and less inclination for employees to stay in WFH, if productivity across the board slumped the way you claim. Decreased productivity not only shows up as decrease in profit on the employer's side it also manifests as more chaos and frustration on the employee side (in white collar jobs anyhow, but then again blue collar ones will never be WFH). However I suspect, most people, like me and my company, found that productivity does NOT, in fact, suffers.

Government being influenced by commercial real estate investors isn't a very far fetched theory, in the UK at least they are major donors not to mention politicians with actual investments.

Managers being frustrated by having it more difficult to feel in control both in terms of the challenge and the ability to drain some power trips from it isn't far-fetched either.

Juniors develop more slowly when based from home as they are less likely to want to 'interrupt' to ask questions.

[Josquius]

Turn office blocks into affordable housing for the poor.

In terms of people going into empty offices, in Guardian comment sections over the years I noticed three reasons: no suitable WFH space at home (flatsharing would suck for it to be fair), lack of social life yet desiring one and instead of creating it latching onto colleagues to provide it, and wanting to be away from their own family.

Except for the lack of WFH options I have zero sympathy for these. Fix your own god damn life don't force me to do it for you.

This isn't a solution.
As mentioned a lot of offices don't convert into homes very well.
But even aside from this it's still hollowing out the city and destroying the centre's sense of place. It transforms cities into nothing but a decentralised suburban mess.

[garbon]

This isn't a solution.
As mentioned a lot of offices don't convert into homes very well.
But even aside from this it's still hollowing out the city and destroying the centre's sense of place. It transforms cities into nothing but a decentralised suburban mess.

I'm not sure I'd describe Oxford street, Picadilly Circus or Leicester Square in London as anything but a mess as is.

[Tamas]

We're closing down the office in the New Year for six weeks for refurbishment and I'm not looking forward to it at all.

I enjoy being in the office although the cycle in during the winter isn't great. I do tend to be more productive at home though - at least in terms of getting stuff done.

Way back when I was in a massive open plan office setup but no longer a technical guy, I'd ask my manager for WFH days when I had big and important calls to manage coming up or I had to focus on some challenging documentation to create.

[Tamas]

Turn office blocks into affordable housing for the poor.

In terms of people going into empty offices, in Guardian comment sections over the years I noticed three reasons: no suitable WFH space at home (flatsharing would suck for it to be fair), lack of social life yet desiring one and instead of creating it latching onto colleagues to provide it, and wanting to be away from their own family.

Except for the lack of WFH options I have zero sympathy for these. Fix your own god damn life don't force me to do it for you.

This isn't a solution.
As mentioned a lot of offices don't convert into homes very well.
But even aside from this it's still hollowing out the city and destroying the centre's sense of place. It transforms cities into nothing but a decentralised suburban mess.

You are such a conservative.