Israel-Hamas War 2023

[grumbler]

That's not how it works. If one party uses their civilian population as a shield, their protection is simply removed.

The onus is not on the other party. Contrary to what many people seem to think, the laws of war were not designed to make war impossible. Nobody would have signed them otherwise.

That's not how it works. If the combatants of a side use civilians as a shield, those combatants lose their LOAC protections.  The civilians do not.

The LOAC are not designed to make war impossible (that's a strawman argument), they are designed to make the war's harmful impact on the innocent and those hors de combat as small as possible.

[grumbler]

We really should not make fighting against Muslims extremists a left vs right thing.

Israel can stand or fall on its own merits.

I think that all anyone wants is to see Israel fulfill its obligations under international law. Civilians would still be killed (that's unavoidable) but their numbers should be limited as far as possible to necessity and proportionality) and there would be no starvation.

[Razgovory]

We really should not make fighting against Muslims extremists a left vs right thing.

Israel can stand or fall on its own merits.

It's really weird that it gotten this way, hasn't it?  As Zoupa alludes to, it's mostly about identity.  

Asshole A: "I hate religion, it form of oppression and all fundamentalists are fascists!"

Asshole B: "Hi, we're Islamic extremists, we'd like build a totalitarian theocracy"

Asshole A: "Well, that checks out.  Godspeed, fellow warrior against White Supremacy!"

[Razgovory]

MAGA is not really left or right, just dumb. Between ICE is great, tariffs work and Arabs aren't humans, Raz is well on his way.

"I think we should treat Arab enemies the same way we treated White enemies"

"My God, you hate brown people"!

[Razgovory]

That's not how it works. If one party uses their civilian population as a shield, their protection is simply removed.

The onus is not on the other party. Contrary to what many people seem to think, the laws of war were not designed to make war impossible. Nobody would have signed them otherwise.

That's not how it works. If the combatants of a side use civilians as a shield, those combatants lose their LOAC protections.  The civilians do not.

The LOAC are not designed to make war impossible (that's a strawman argument), they are designed to make the war's harmful impact on the innocent and those hors de combat as small as possible.

Wait, the combatants had LOAC protections?  The Israelis couldn't shoot them until they used civilians as shields?

[Zoupa]

MAGA is not really left or right, just dumb. Between ICE is great, tariffs work and Arabs aren't humans, Raz is well on his way.

"I think we should treat Arab enemies the same way we treated White enemies"

"My God, you hate brown people"!

But you do hate brown people tho. Did a latino diddle you as a kid or something?

[Razgovory]

MAGA is not really left or right, just dumb. Between ICE is great, tariffs work and Arabs aren't humans, Raz is well on his way.

"I think we should treat Arab enemies the same way we treated White enemies"

"My God, you hate brown people"!

But you do hate brown people tho. Did a latino diddle you as a kid or something?

Where have I said that?  Please, show me.

[HVC]

MAGA is not really left or right, just dumb. Between ICE is great, tariffs work and Arabs aren't humans, Raz is well on his way.

"I think we should treat Arab enemies the same way we treated White enemies"

"My God, you hate brown people"!

But you do hate brown people tho. Did a latino diddle you as a kid or something?

Where have I said that?  Please, show me.

You've said Muslims want to drag you out onto the street to kill you, not exactly terms of endearment.

[Zoupa]

It's just weird to be this racist in 2025. Amerikkka really is regressing.

[HVC]

It's just weird to be this racist in 2025. Amerikkka really is regressing.

"I'm not racist, it just happens to be true that all blacks are thiefs".

It's a predictable but saddening train of thought. Muslim fanatics want to kill me. All Muslims are fanatics. Therefore all Muslims want to kill me. In line with there are no civilian Muslims, they're all militants is disguise.

*edit* though I will admit "people are against Israel's actions because they're white" seems to be a novel idea to me and is a surprising departure from the common accusations of antisemitism

[grumbler]

Wait, the combatants had LOAC protections?  The Israelis couldn't shoot them until they used civilians as shields?

What are you babbling about? Why are you seriously asking if the Israelis couldn't shoot them until they used civilians as shields?

This sounds like more bad-faith argumentation.

[Razgovory]

MAGA is not really left or right, just dumb. Between ICE is great, tariffs work and Arabs aren't humans, Raz is well on his way.

"I think we should treat Arab enemies the same way we treated White enemies"

"My God, you hate brown people"!

But you do hate brown people tho. Did a latino diddle you as a kid or something?

Where have I said that?  Please, show me.

You've said Muslims want to drag you out onto the street to kill you, not exactly terms of endearment.

Show me where I said that.  This is also very revealing that you made this statement.

[Razgovory]

Wait, the combatants had LOAC protections?  The Israelis couldn't shoot them until they used civilians as shields?

What are you babbling about? Why are you seriously asking if the Israelis couldn't shoot them until they used civilians as shields?

This sounds like more bad-faith argumentation.

I don't understand what you mean.  You said

If the combatants of a side use civilians as a shield, those combatants lose their LOAC protections.

What protections did the combatants have?

[HVC]

MAGA is not really left or right, just dumb. Between ICE is great, tariffs work and Arabs aren't humans, Raz is well on his way.

"I think we should treat Arab enemies the same way we treated White enemies"

"My God, you hate brown people"!

But you do hate brown people tho. Did a latino diddle you as a kid or something?

Where have I said that?  Please, show me.

You've said Muslims want to drag you out onto the street to kill you, not exactly terms of endearment.

Show me where I said that.  This is also very revealing that you made this statement.

No problem.

I have become very unsympathetic to Islamic fanatics.  The cause of people who would kill me and drag my body through the streets is no longer one I am interested in championing. 

My bad, you said they'd kill you first then drag you onto the streets. I had the order of events reversed.

Given your reluctance (inability?) to differentiate between Muslim civilians and Muslims fanatics or militants one can safely conclude you don't see a difference. To you all Muslims are fanatics. Your indifference to Muslim civilian deaths bolsters this view.

I've answered your question, so would you be so kind as to do the same for me? What does my statement reveal in your eyes? Against my better judgement I'm actually curious.

[grumbler]

What protections did the combatants have?

Lawful combatants have the right to be treated as a POW if captured (rather than as a criminal) and protection from further violence when hors de combat. POW status then confers further protections.

This is all information easily found on the web.