Israel-Hamas War 2023

[viper37]

Should the Americans and the British had pushed toward Moscow in 1946?

In hindsight they probably should have, but there was zero political will amongst the allies to do so.

Sure, in hindsight yes.  In hindsight, Constantine XI Palaiologos should have found a way to pay for that cannon.  Emperor Valens should not have fought the Goth without his reinforcements and certainly not led the battle himself.  In hindsight, Vercingetorix should not have rebelled against the Romans, nor should have Arminius, probably.

In hindsight, the French should have invaded the Ruhr right when Hitler re-militarized it and Chamberlain should never have agreed to the Munich treaty...

So, there was zero political will, and I'm not even sure the Allies could have fared that well against the Red Army in 1946.  We're talking 34 million men here, and an industry able to sustain itself by the end of the war, far from the reach of any allied aircraft.  They can afford to take huge losses.

That's something to try on your next HOI game, maybe?

[viper37]

So.  Let's cut the bullshit about these ethno states.  It doesn't really apply to Palestine and they don't really have a choice about who "comes" to live in their state.

What the fuck dude.

I'm sorry, I don't want to be rude toward you.

Neil described Palestine as an ethno state where its people should be deported and says it's not a crime against humanity nor a atrocity.

People, children are being deported elsewhere right now, in Ukraine, and it is very much a crime against humanity.

The same twisted logic Neil (and others) uses for Palestine and Palestinians can be used for any country of the world and as been used before for many nations.  It's the exact same logic used by Russians to kidnap Ukrainian children and bring them into Russia.  The same logic used to invade Ukraine: it's not a real country. The same logic Israel uses for Palestine: Not a real country, not a real people.

[Neil]

I didn't describe Palestine as an ethnostate at all.  They're not a state.

[DGuller]

Anecdotally, I've seen it personally. I have a buddy who I'd situate roughly like an apolitical dguller - generally centrist and inclined towards logic, not pro-Trump or GOP inclined at all, but very frustrated with all the woke stuff.

How times change, it wasn't that long ago that people were claiming with total confidence that I parroted every talking point of the Democratic party. 

The truth was that I independently reasoned my way to the left back then, and I still consider myself on the left today.  It may seem like the left moved away from me, but I don't really believe that it did as much as it seems.  Most of the leftists I know personally are similar to me, although to have an honest conversation where I get to find that out I have to send a subtle signal that it's okay to say heretical things to me.

[Valmy]

The truth was that I independently reasoned my way to the left back then, and I still consider myself on the left today.  It may seem like the left moved away from me, but I don't really believe that it did as much as it seems.  Most of the leftists I know personally are similar to me, although to have an honest conversation where I get to find that out I have to send a subtle signal that it's okay to say heretical things to me.

What are all the exciting heretical things I can say to you? 

I don't recall ever thinking you were some kind of Democratic Party shill either.  I also am not sure about all the leftist things you are upset about besides a general hatred of "wokeness" which I take it as some kind of oppression Olympics in your mind. But I am not sure.

[DGuller]

To be honest I'm not comfortable sharing that.  It's nothing that should be beyond the pale to say, but it's also something that with bad faith can be made to be such, and often is.

[Valmy]

To be honest I'm not comfortable sharing that.  It's nothing that should be beyond the pale to say, but it's also something that with bad faith can be made to be such, and often is.

Fair enough.

[Jacob]

How times change, it wasn't that long ago that people were claiming with total confidence that I parroted every talking point of the Democratic party.

Those people weren't me

The truth was that I independently reasoned my way to the left back then, and I still consider myself on the left today.  It may seem like the left moved away from me, but I don't really believe that it did as much as it seems.  Most of the leftists I know personally are similar to me, although to have an honest conversation where I get to find that out I have to send a subtle signal that it's okay to say heretical things to me.

I think there's definitely an appetite for a leftism that isn't focused on identity issues. I don't think you and your friends are alone.

[Legbiter]

I think there's definitely an appetite for a leftism that isn't focused on identity issues.

[garbon]

I think minorities in America would love the privilege to not be demeaned or threatened for their identities.

[celedhring]

I really feel I have to push back on the whole "identity is a distraction" discourse. Identity is very much a leftist cause when someone's race/gender/sexual orientation prevents them from living a full fruitful life due to discrimination.

[crazy canuck]

Jacob, to further answer your question, here is the answer in their own words


https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/know-your-enemy/id1462703434?i=1000668862751

[Valmy]

I really feel I have to push back on the whole "identity is a distraction" discourse. Identity is very much a leftist cause when someone's race/gender/sexual orientation prevents them from living a full fruitful life due to discrimination.

It is kind of both things. Because yes, we should treat people with respect and kindness regardless of their identity. And that is a big political cause.

On the other hand governments and corporations love hijacking identity politics to hide their actual regressive policies. So it also serves as a distraction.

[crazy canuck]

I really feel I have to push back on the whole "identity is a distraction" discourse. Identity is very much a leftist cause when someone's race/gender/sexual orientation prevents them from living a full fruitful life due to discrimination.

It is kind of both things. Because yes, we should treat people with respect and kindness regardless of their identity. And that is a big political cause.

On the other hand governments and corporations love hijacking identity politics to hide their actual regressive policies. So it also serves as a distraction.

I heard an analysis the other day that suggested DEI consultants were so highly demanded, and so poorly trained because there really hadn't been much in the way of DEI consultants before the demand grew, that the DEI training provided through governmental and corporate bodies was horrifically bad.

The theory goes that that disastrous implementation of DEI policy by people who have very little idea what they were doing is a cause of the backlash.

I have some personal experience with that having sat through a couple of DEI sessions my clients were putting on for the purpose of providing them follow up legal advice, about implementation and related issues.

One consultant who did the training was very good and she knew both the legal landscape in which DEI training is supposed to take place and what it is supposed to achieve.

But she was the exception. In other cases, I had to advise clients to stop using their consultants because they were saying things that were not legally tenable.

[viper37]

I didn't describe Palestine as an ethnostate at all.  They're not a state.

Forcing people to move the ethnostate that they wanted to live in

Who was it?