Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Razgovory]

Hamas got in power because Palestinians hate Jews.  Killing Jews is very popular with Palestinians and Hamas came to power in an election.  You don't need to come up with some sort of grand strategy on why Hamas is doing this.  Killing Jews is their default.  They just went big this time.

And in killing a few hundred Jews today they lose their ability to keep killing Jews ever again in the future.

No. I find it hard to believe that a majority of the Palestinian population value just one more dead Jew over their own fundamental survival.

They tie bombs around their chests and set them off in crowded places full of Jews.

[Gups]

Hamas got in power because Palestinians hate Jews.  Killing Jews is very popular with Palestinians and Hamas came to power in an election.  You don't need to come up with some sort of grand strategy on why Hamas is doing this.  Killing Jews is their default.  They just went big this time.

And in killing a few hundred Jews today they lose their ability to keep killing Jews ever again in the future.

No. I find it hard to believe that a majority of the Palestinian population value just one more dead Jew over their own fundamental survival.

They tie bombs around their chests and set them off in crowded places full of Jews.

The majority of the Palestinian population do?

[Sophie Scholl]

The whole situation is an absolute tragedy. My personal position is more or less in agreement with Hasan Piker's, though. 
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[Admiral Yi]

I can think of two parties committing violence and both have the ability to stop committing violence any time they wish.

[Threviel]

Yeah, all the Palestinians need to do to stop war is stop demanding an ethnic cleansing and then go to the bargaining table. All the Israelis need to do is mass suicide.

[Josquius]

Yeah, all the Palestinians need to do to stop war is stop demanding an ethnic cleansing and then go to the bargaining table. All the Israelis need to do is mass suicide.

OK. That's already done. So... How about that peace settlement and Israeli withdrawal then?
It's pretty obvious why the violent approach sells so well given Israels failure with the moderates.

[Admiral Yi]

OK. That's already done. So... How about that peace settlement and Israeli withdrawal then?

It's been a long time since this was a topic and I might have missed something big, but doesn't the Hamas charter still call for the elimination of Israel?

[Hamilcar]

Reports now that Hezbollah is hitting northern Israel with rockets now.

[Hamilcar]

Netanyahu's full statement from Twitter:

This morning, on Shabbat and a holiday, Hamas invaded Israeli territory and murdered innocent citizens including children and the elderly. Hamas has started a brutal and evil war.

We will be victorious in this war despite an unbearable price. This is a very difficult day for all of us.

Hamas wants to murder us all. This is an enemy that murders children and mothers in their homes, in their beds, an enemy that abducts the elderly, children and young women, that slaughters and massacres our citizens, including children, who simply went out to enjoy the holiday.

What happened today is unprecedented in Israel – and I will see to it that it does not happen again. The entire government is behind this decision.

The IDF will immediately use all its strength to destroy Hamas's capabilities. We will destroy them and we will forcefully avenge this dark day that they have forced on the State of Israel and its citizens. As Bialik wrote: 'Revenge for the blood of a little child has yet been devised by Satan'.

All of the places which Hamas is deployed, hiding and operating in, that wicked city, we will turn them into rubble.

I say to the residents of Gaza: Leave now because we will operate forcefully everywhere.

At this hour, the IDF is clearing the terrorists out of the last communities. They are going community by community, house by house, and are restoring our control.

I embrace and send heartfelt condolences to the bereaved families whose loved ones were murdered today in cold blood and endless brutality.

We are all praying for the well-being of the wounded and all those who are being held hostage. I say to Hamas: You are responsible for their well-being. Israel will settle accounts with anyone who harms one hair on their heads.

I appeal to the residents of the south: We all stand alongside you. We are all proud of your heroism and your fighting.

To our beloved IDF soldiers, police officers and security forces personnel, remember that you are the continuation of the heroes of the Jewish people, of Joshua, Judah Maccabee and the heroes of 1948 and of all of Israel's wars. You are now fighting for the home and future of us all. We are all with you. We all love you. We all salute you.

To the medical and rescue teams, and the many volunteers who came out in force today in a long list of places, the people of Israel salute you. With your spirit, we will overcome our enemies.

Today, I spoke with US President Biden and with other world leaders in order to ensure freedom of action for Israel in the continuation of the campaign. I thank President Biden for his strong and clear words. I thank the President of France, the Prime Minister of Great Britain and many other leaders for their unreserved support for Israel.

I now appeal to all citizens of Israel:

We stand together in this campaign.

This war will take time. It will be difficult. Challenging days are ahead of us. However, I can promise one thing: With the help of G-d, the forces that we all have in common and our faith in the Eternal One of Israel, we will win.

This is really ominous.

[Josquius]

OK. That's already done. So... How about that peace settlement and Israeli withdrawal then?

It's been a long time since this was a topic and I might have missed something big, but doesn't the Hamas charter still call for the elimination of Israel?

Fatah are the legitimate (well. Not really. But more than Hamas) and majority Palestinian government. They gave up violence and turned to negotiation a while ago. For seemingly no benefit.

[Admiral Yi]

Fatah are the legitimate (well. Not really. But more than Hamas) and majority Palestinian government. They gave up violence and turned to negotiation a while ago. For seemingly no benefit.

It would be nice if you put in all the qualifiers before I challenged you on it.  Like if you had qualified your last sentence to include a quasi government and limited autonomy.

That aside, you do touch on my preferred fix: the three state solution.  Independent West Bank, Israel, and open air Hamas prison.

[Josquius]

Fatah are the legitimate (well. Not really. But more than Hamas) and majority Palestinian government. They gave up violence and turned to negotiation a while ago. For seemingly no benefit.

It would be nice if you put in all the qualifiers before I challenged you on it.  Like if you had qualified your last sentence to include a quasi government and limited autonomy.

That aside, you do touch on my preferred fix: the three state solution.  Independent West Bank, Israel, and open air Hamas prison.

Threvial said Palestinians.
Fatah are the closest thing to the official Palestinian view. Certainly more so than Hamas.

That would be a workable stopgap. Though lots of innocent people in Gaza. Also has the vital problem of Israel and it's settlers.

[Admiral Yi]

Threvial said Palestinians.

Then you tried to correct his overgeneralization, then I corrected your overgeneralization.

That would be a workable stopgap. Though lots of innocent people in Gaza. Also has the vital problem of Israel and it's settlers.

There were lots of innocent people in Nazi Germany.

Yes to the settler problem.

[Tamas]

The whole situation is an absolute tragedy. My personal position is more or less in agreement with Hasan Piker's, though. 
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There were civilians gunned down where they stood, many of them captured. Hard for me to stomach "well yeah, but" stance on this one, no matter how I have been dismayed to see Israel going down the same gutters every other country in then region long entered.

What do you see as the course of action for Israel to take to end this conflict (sine assume that is the single side you say holds all respnisibilty for whatever happens)? Keeping in mind that the official stated goal of Hamas is the destruction of the state of Israel.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, all the Palestinians need to do to stop war is stop demanding an ethnic cleansing and then go to the bargaining table. All the Israelis need to do is mass suicide.

Some posters make this mistake characterizing the acts of Hamas as being the acts of all Palestinians.

Fact is that the majority of Palestinians have been trying for decades to establish some form of coexistence with the state of Israel. There have also been many Israelis attempting to do the same thing. A Prime Minister of Israel was assassinated for trying to do that very thing. Assassinated by the same right wing extremists that now support the present Israeli Prime Minister.