Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Iormlund]

thought it was a non-controversial standard policy of states that they don't negotiate with terrorists,

That's a good line for movies.  In reality, they do it all the time.
Like, Right now

Or not so long ago about  a cease-fire

Or the hostage crisis of Lebanon, where negotiations were held by various parties.

Or the latest when Israel negotiated with the Hezbollah for the return of the bodies of the kidnapped soldiers.

If I search for more instances, I will find more.

The last time they swapped a thousand prisoners for one soldier.

One of the guys they freed is now the head of Hamas in Gaza and directed the attack.

It is fair to say they think it was a mistake.

[Josquius]

This doesn't disprove that negotiation with terrorists is bog standard behaviour for states.

Relative to  my previous perception I'm less sympathetic to the Palestinian political cause, more concerned about the danger of radical Islamicists, and more critical a number of leftist-activist arguments in this and related areas.

EDIT: it has also accelerated the already existing decline in desire to get involved in intenste, knock-down political arguments.

The shift for me is I do think there is a bigger issue on the left with anti-semitism than I'd appreciated (and I hadn't doubted it before this).

It's not so much the response to the Hamas attack - although there is some of that. Again I imagine 90% of the people here will hate it, but I think this anti-Zionist piece captures that: https://samkriss.substack.com/p/but-not-like-this

But I'm seeing people attacking Bernie Sanders and Jon Lansman (UK ally of Corbyn) for being against the Palestinian and I think they're basically just telling on themselves. In part because they're both Jewish, but also if those opinions are being attacked as anti-Palestine, then you're not interested in peace. You just want war. Again comfortable radicals in Britain and America thrilling vicariously at other people's national liberations and revolutions, paid for in other people's blood.

Edit: I've got a post on Lansman actually in Brexit thread as his interview was interesting.

Just had a chance to read that link. Very good and reasonable piece. A bit long for modern attention spans and schedules alas so I doubt many of those who need to read it will.
Could perhaps go a bit into how fascists and like minded folks love a bit of victim hood so these idiots defending the Hamas attacks are playing right into their hands. Or would that despite being true detract from the point. Hmm.
Would be good to see similar pieces coming from a more pro Israel direction too. I'm sure they must exist.

[viper37]

The last time they swapped a thousand prisoners for one soldier.

One of the guys they freed is now the head of Hamas in Gaza and directed the attack.

It is fair to say they think it was a mistake.

Like Josqu said, they often do it despite their policy of never negotiating.

If it's a good idea of not depend on many variables.

The Oak and the Reed, Jean de La Fontaine.

[Threviel]

Yeah, and from a political realist perspective it's madness to negotiate, but from a human perspective they got that soldier home. Not an easy choice to make.

[viper37]

Just in case someone was still in denial about the future plans for Gaza:
'We're Rolling Out Nakba 2023,' Israeli Minister Says on Northern Gaza Strip Evacuation - Israel News - Haaretz.com

[Razgovory]

Israel has tried to deliver fuel for the hospitals, Hamas is preventing the hospitals from taking it.

[Jacob]

Israel has tried to deliver fuel for the hospitals, Hamas is preventing the hospitals from taking it.

Link?

[Razgovory]

I don't know how to link Twitter pages.  I got from the Pdox forums.  Maybe this will work.

https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1723747056852893702?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1723747056852893702%7Ctwgr%5E58260126973388967002053d8eb93aab5059a8ca%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.paradoxplaza.com%2Fforum%2Fthreads%2Fthe-israel-palestine-thread-yes-really.680611%2Fpage-820

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4JduL-kAnIo

Rashida Tlaib's message to progressives.

[Razgovory]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4JduL-kAnIo

Rashida Tlaib's message to progressives.

Yeah, she can go fuck herself.

[Tamas]

So with these hospitals, news reports are saying "fighting around". I think it should be made clear if Israel is accused  of shooting at a hospital full of non-combatants, because otherwise perhaps Hamas is equally to blame for using the streets around the hospital (assuming they are not using the hospital itself) as combat ground. It's hardly unheard of to give up defending stuff you don't want to see destroyed in the fighting.

Unless of course the basic stance of the news reporters is that Israel has no right to fight Hamas in which case they are solely to blame for being there.

[Tamas]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4JduL-kAnIo

Rashida Tlaib's message to progressives.

Wow. "I want you all to know that I am personally revoking your progressive credentials unless you support my view on this particular issue" On which she has tribal allegiances due to family and religion but that's not why she supports the particular side I am sure, it's universal progressive values, such as ignoring a slaving raid killing 1400 people.

[The Brain]

Has Amnesty condemned Gaza for using civilians as shields? They slammed Ukraine for it IIRC.

[Grey Fox]

Has Amnesty condemned Gaza for using civilians as shields? They slammed Ukraine for it IIRC.

No. Russia supports, indirectly, Hamas.

[Tamas]

Not that it is going to change anyone's mind but here is a Hamas terrorist running about with an RPG just outside one of these hospitals the IDF has the AUDICITY to use weapons around:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1724058554724732928