Israel-Hamas War 2023

[viper37]

The big mushroom cloud over Japan stopped most of the wars of the 2nd half of the 20th century.

Common misconception.  The USSR invasion was the final straw.  Fighting a war on two fronts was their nightmare and it was reflected in Hiro Hito address to the soldiers.

[viper37]

This is a scenario where the Gaza strip is actively waging war against Israel.

The people who seek to call it collective punishment, largely seem to be operating under a few delusions:

1. That in a war, it is "morally wrong" for two sides to be fighting and one side to be "much better" at the fighting
2. That in a war, if one side is much more powerful, it is wrong to keep fighting when the other side is being "harmed a alot."
3. It is invalid in war to conduct any military operations that will have a negative impact on civilians

I think it is quite obvious we are now in the realm of "special rules of war", that appear to have never been suggested or applied in any wars, ever--even ones between the United States and very weak entities. The only time these special rules of war seem to apply is when one of the belligerents is a Jewish country.

The problem lies when you extend the #3 to deliberately target civilians.
It's one thing to defend yourself, it's another to pretend everyone is an enemy combatant.

Let's assume that your position is true, that 100% of the people are active supporters of Hamas.  Is it legal to shoot unarmed soldiers?  Normal rules of war are difficult to apply, Hamas and other "militant" group usually don't wear militant group.

[Razgovory]

The big mushroom cloud over Japan stopped most of the wars of the 2nd half of the 20th century.

Common misconception.  The USSR invasion was the final straw.  Fighting a war on two fronts was their nightmare and it was reflected in Hiro Hito address to the soldiers.

Yeah, I'm sure that the invasion of Manchuria really did a lot to prevent WW3.

[viper37]

Israel will flood Hamas tunnels with never gas

Click-bait title. 

It's what the Palestinians think the IDF will do under Delta Force supervision.

US Delta Force will oversee "large quantities of nerve gas being pumped into Hamas tunnels, capable of paralyzing the bodily movement for a period of time between six and 12 hours."

It's a good strategy, but the element of surprise is kinda lost here.

Reminds me a Lucky Luke comic.

[viper37]

Hebron.  The sad reality of living under occupation.

[Zoupa]

Israel will flood Hamas tunnels with never gas

Click-bait title. 

It's what the Palestinians think the IDF will do under Delta Force supervision.

US Delta Force will oversee "large quantities of nerve gas being pumped into Hamas tunnels, capable of paralyzing the bodily movement for a period of time between six and 12 hours."

It's a good strategy, but the element of surprise is kinda lost here.

Reminds me a Lucky Luke comic.

The website linked is pure bullshit btw. This story is 10000% fake.

[Razgovory]

Nerve gas paralyzes the heart and longs. Permanently.  No wonder viper is so well informed.

[Josquius]

He says its what the Palestinians think. Not what is actually planned. Seems very believable that they'd think something like so.

[Tamas]

Seems very believable that they'd think something like so.

Yes they'd certainly do such a thing themselves if they could.

[Josquius]

A depressing story for the scumbags on both sides case...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67206277

[Threviel]

On the one hand you have the official state twitter of Israel spreading lies and on the other a global grass roots campaign.

And I assume the opposite is true in the other direction sometimes.

It sure is a shit show. And really dumb of whoever runs the Israeli state twitter account, higher credibility than Hamas is an advantage they should attempt to keep.

I wanted to see what this official Israel account is https://twitter.com/Israel

Not good for mental health place, but also weird that they are in a twitter matrix meme war with the Iranians. https://twitter.com/IsraelinUSA/status/1714612188374011915

[grumbler]

The big mushroom cloud over Japan stopped most of the wars of the 2nd half of the 20th century.

Common misconception.  The USSR invasion was the final straw.  Fighting a war on two fronts was their nightmare and it was reflected in Hiro Hito address to the soldiers.

Revisionist history.  Japan was not even aware of the scale of the Soviet invasion when the decision  to surrender was made.  The atomic bombings demonstrated that the US no longer had any need to invade, and this eliminated the last hope that the Japanese had (their plan was to defeat the invasion and then sue for peace from a stronger position).  The loss of Manchuria was inconsequential at that point in the war.

[Tamas]

Yeah I never got the whole "Soviets forced Japanese surrender" thing, I expect it was Russian propaganda. I mean, surely at that point keeping Manchuria was the least of Japan's worries?

In any case Raz originally referenced post-WW2 peace (in sense of no major great power war) which WAS I believe guaranteed by the presence of nuclear weapons so he was right.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Yeah I never got the whole "Soviets forced Japanese surrender" thing, I expect it was Russian propaganda. I mean, surely at that point keeping Manchuria was the least of Japan's worries?

In any case Raz originally referenced post-WW2 peace (in sense of no major great power war) which WAS I believe guaranteed by the presence of nuclear weapons so he was right.

Japanese leaders were holding out hope that they could keep Manchuria, Korea, and maybe other territories in the eventual peace. IIRC the peace feelers they put out through the USSR were all following that note.

The big mushroom cloud over Japan stopped most of the wars of the 2nd half of the 20th century.

Common misconception.  The USSR invasion was the final straw.  Fighting a war on two fronts was their nightmare and it was reflected in Hiro Hito address to the soldiers.

Revisionist history.  Japan was not even aware of the scale of the Soviet invasion when the decision  to surrender was made.  The atomic bombings demonstrated that the US no longer had any need to invade, and this eliminated the last hope that the Japanese had (their plan was to defeat the invasion and then sue for peace from a stronger position).  The loss of Manchuria was inconsequential at that point in the war.

And even the bombings didn't convince everyone: there was an anti-peace coup attempt while the government was about to surrender.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I never got the whole "Soviets forced Japanese surrender" thing, I expect it was Russian propaganda. I mean, surely at that point keeping Manchuria was the least of Japan's worries?

I think it's more the implications of Soviet invasion in the peace. Not just no Asian land holdings but what it would mean for the Home Islands. The emperor's definitely gone if the Soviets are a party and they've just seen the allies establish zones of control in Austria and Germany. And I think the early contours of the Cold War are already shaping everyone's thinking: US or USSR.

Obviously revisionist isn't untrue and all of these events came at around the same time. My understanding is the Japanese sources are often contradictory - different audiences and areas get different emphases. I'm persuaded by Hasegawa's account which leans more Soviet. But ultimately there's no way to know.

Obviously I think for different reasons and in different ways it's in Japanese and American interests to focus on the bomb, which shapes the interpretation for a long time.