2024 US Presidential Elections Megathread

[Tamas]

Just to repeat here from another discussion: I think my problem isn't with DG's core argument. He might even be right. But "woke" has been for many years a far-right term used to define the things they do not like. If you define/summarise your problem with parts of the Left as "woke-ism" you are demonstrably under right-wing influence, even if your concerns are otherwise valid.

[chipwich]

Boo hoo someone has rightwing influence.

[Caliga]

You guys are digging and digging. Maybe the answer is that a majority of your countrymen are just stupid.

Apparently Harris got less than Biden in terms of percentage of the female vote. 45 % of women voted Trump. There's only so much you can explain and decipher. Maybe y'all are just morons.

I don't think so.  Sure, lots of Americans are stupid, but so are lots of French people, lots of British people... lots of people everywhere.

What I do think Americans are more than many other people, is selfish and self-centered, and as I've argued earlier I think that is what resulted in Trump's victory.  The Democrats either just can't grasp this, or refuse to pander to it.  As we know, Trump is unbound by his party and free to say or do whatever he likes, and is happy to play to Americans' basest instincts.  That's why I said the DNC should resign en masse, since they can't grasp this or won't accept it.

[The Brain]

Remember when the US wasn't a shitshow? Even Pepperidge Farm doesn't.

[Grey Fox]

It's always been a mess.

[HVC]

Remember when the US wasn't a shitshow? Even Pepperidge Farm doesn't.

So... Washington?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

what if the issue people have with the (far) left isn't the 'woke'/'progressiveness' explicitly but the way that part of  the political spectrum goes about everything... their arrogance in thinking that they are the sole arbiters of what is good and proper and that everyone who doesn't fully agree must surely be somekind of scum.

Or as a former politician-and-journalist recently said:
(had to run it through google translate, but it conveys his thought well enough)
"Those who see themselves as the unique guardians of the good have great difficulty in elegantly disagreeing with dissenters. Because thinking differently here can only mean that the dissenter does not have the best interests of the world, the class, the people at heart, right?"

It's an attitude that's very like the one the priests had only a few decades ago when they claimed to be the sole guardians of morality. A priesthood with a wagging finger and an penchant for excommunication (better than blowing up or stabbing to death as is popular with other cults).
The result being that the people claiming to stand for diversity, inclusion, tolerance... actually end up being the opposite of that.

just a thought, maybe sufficient to add some additional perspective

[DGuller]

I think it puts well the biggest problem.  A lot of the more minor problems are secondary to this intolerance of dissent.  Stupid ideas survive when the can't be exposed through honest discussion.

[Solmyr]

Not really, no. Just people who complain about "woke".

Ok, I get it, it's hard for you to take me seriously.  Try your best.  Do you really think that you come off looking smart when you imply that I'm not?

Look, if you want to complain about dirty homeless people tarnishing your beautiful subway, then do that. Don't call it "woke" because that has nothing to do with woke and simply erases any meaning of that word.

[Josquius]

what if the issue people have with the (far) left isn't the 'woke'/'progressiveness' explicitly but the way that part of  the political spectrum goes about everything... their arrogance in thinking that they are the sole arbiters of what is good and proper and that everyone who doesn't fully agree must surely be somekind of scum.

This sounds far more like Trump than anyone amongst the Democrats.

[DGuller]

Besides, I clearly have no idea what the Democrats need to do to turn this thing around.

To be honest, I don't have many ideas either.  I get the point that a lot of people are making, that what I'm often criticizing is the left, not the Democratic Party.  It's a valid point.  However, I always found "don't bring problems, bring solutions" saying stupid; it's fine to describe the problems if you think you've identified them, maybe there is a person out there who's bad at identifying problems but good at finding solutions, so you still helped things along.

One very vague solution is that we really need to stress the importance of having good politicians.  Being a politician shouldn't be a dirty word.  We need shrewd political operators, not people who tick the boxes.  Our bastards even, if that's what it takes.  Being a bad politician is a sin when your opponents are trying to destroy democracy.  LBJ wasn't a nice person, but he got a lot of nice things done in his own way.  It's a better outcome than what we got with Obama.

[crazy canuck]

Just heard Harris' concession speech.  It really fell flat.  She essentially said she did what she set out to do. No she did not.  She then ended the speech by saying America was entering a period of darkness.  She just pissed off everyone. She pissed off her base by claiming all had gone well with her campaign.  And she pissed off everyone who didn't vote for her by saying they were effectively forces of darkness.

That might be something she could pull off is she won the vote count but lost in the EC.  But she lost by every measure.  That is the time a politician says the people have spoken, we hear them, and will do better.

[DGuller]

Not really, no. Just people who complain about "woke".

Ok, I get it, it's hard for you to take me seriously.  Try your best.  Do you really think that you come off looking smart when you imply that I'm not?

Look, if you want to complain about dirty homeless people tarnishing your beautiful subway, then do that. Don't call it "woke" because that has nothing to do with woke and simply erases any meaning of that word.

When you put it that way, no, it has nothing to do with woke.  But why would you put it that way, why misrepresent what I said so severely?

[Admiral Yi]

The Hispanic vote really isn't that head-scratching.  As a voting bloc they are not interested in identity politics, and are by and large poor, so the messaging that resonates with them is 'give us more money'.  The Democrats have been trying to treat them the same as black voters, and that doesn't and isn't going to work.

I think it's the other way around.  Plenty of Hispanics have made it up the economic ladder.  Then they want to hang out with the rich white guys.  They want to join the country club.  They want status.  They vote Republican.  The Democrats are the party of losers.  The Republicans are the party of winners.

[Zoupa]

Btw I thought felons couldn't vote, so how come Trump voted yesterday.