2024 US Presidential Elections Megathread

[Barrister]

Long-read from Springfield, Ohio:

https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/wanderland/exotic-cat-eaters-springfield-ohio/

I think the money quote is:

The case against the Haitians isn't that they are welfare malingers or cat-eaters—or even that they are illegal immigrants who came here thanks to Joe Biden's lax border enforcement, which most of them aren't. The real issue is that by working overtime and investing in the community, they have made life more challenging for a reliable Trump-voting constituency: marginally employed white people on the dole.

Just so you know the source - The Dispatch was formed by former National Review writers but Trump skeptics (though not to the point they would endorse Harris).  The writer Kevin Williamson is another former National Review writer.  He was perhaps most famous for being hired, then within days fired, by the NYT once they discovered he was actually pro-life

[Grey Fox]

Forced-Birth.

[Barrister]

Forced-Birth.

So the point is the NY Times wanted to get more diversity of opinion in it's opinion writers so hired Williamson, then quickly turned around and fired him within days after a Twitter controversy showed he actually had a different opinion.

He's a good writer even if I don't agree with everything he writes - just read the article.


Edit: it's a very pro-immigrant piece, but I like that he doesn't quite shy away from the problems a lot of Haitian migrants coming to Springfield brings.  Chief amongst them?  Apparently Haitians are, in general, terrible drivers.  Really - he comes to this point a few times, including from Haitians themselves.

Probably obvious to say but the eating of cats is NOT one of those problems.

[garbon]

Forced-Birth.

So the point is the NY Times wanted to get more diversity of opinion in it's opinion writers so hired Williamson, then quickly turned around and fired him within days after a Twitter controversy showed he actually had a different opinion.

He's a good writer even if I don't agree with everything he writes - just read the article.


Edit: it's a very pro-immigrant piece, but I like that he doesn't quite shy away from the problems a lot of Haitian migrants coming to Springfield brings.  Chief amongst them?  Apparently Haitians are, in general, terrible drivers.  Really - he comes to this point a few times, including from Haitians themselves.

Probably obvious to say but the eating of cats is NOT one of those problems.

If they had wanted diversity of opinion and then fired someone when they found out he wad racist would that be worthy of derision?

[Barrister]

Forced-Birth.

So the point is the NY Times wanted to get more diversity of opinion in it's opinion writers so hired Williamson, then quickly turned around and fired him within days after a Twitter controversy showed he actually had a different opinion.

He's a good writer even if I don't agree with everything he writes - just read the article.


Edit: it's a very pro-immigrant piece, but I like that he doesn't quite shy away from the problems a lot of Haitian migrants coming to Springfield brings.  Chief amongst them?  Apparently Haitians are, in general, terrible drivers.  Really - he comes to this point a few times, including from Haitians themselves.

Probably obvious to say but the eating of cats is NOT one of those problems.

If they had wanted diversity of opinion and then fired someone when they found out he wad racist would that be worthy of derision?

That depends if you equate being pro-life with being racist.

I don't.

[garbon]

Forced-Birth.

So the point is the NY Times wanted to get more diversity of opinion in it's opinion writers so hired Williamson, then quickly turned around and fired him within days after a Twitter controversy showed he actually had a different opinion.

He's a good writer even if I don't agree with everything he writes - just read the article.


Edit: it's a very pro-immigrant piece, but I like that he doesn't quite shy away from the problems a lot of Haitian migrants coming to Springfield brings.  Chief amongst them?  Apparently Haitians are, in general, terrible drivers.  Really - he comes to this point a few times, including from Haitians themselves.

Probably obvious to say but the eating of cats is NOT one of those problems.

If they had wanted diversity of opinion and then fired someone when they found out he wad racist would that be worthy of derision?

That depends if you equate being pro-life with being racist.

I don't.

My point was that you can want diversity of opinion and still see some opinions as beyond the pale.

For the US, I think 'forced birth' is probably a more accurate description than 'pro-life' given that most holding that view in the US are also in favour of cutting programmes that would keep those children out of poverty. Apart from concerns that Dems want to murder babies as soon as they are born, they don't seem to care much about those 'lives' after the birth event.

[Barrister]

My point was that you can want diversity of opinion and still see some opinions as beyond the pale.

For the US, I think 'forced birth' is probably a more accurate description than 'pro-life' given that most holding that view in the US are also in favour of cutting programmes that would keep those children out of poverty. Apart from concerns that Dems want to murder babies as soon as they are born, they don't seem to care much about those 'lives' after the birth event.

Your point was extremely obvious and I certainly got it.

I had thought my response was equally obvious.

Some opinions can and should be "beyond the pale".  Racism is probably one of them - I don't want to see opinion pieces about how blacks are genetically inferior to whites in the New York Times.

Such "beyond the pale" positions should be quite narrowly construed, and I don't think abortion is one of them.  Reasonable people can have differences of opinion on abortion.

[garbon]

My point was that you can want diversity of opinion and still see some opinions as beyond the pale.

For the US, I think 'forced birth' is probably a more accurate description than 'pro-life' given that most holding that view in the US are also in favour of cutting programmes that would keep those children out of poverty. Apart from concerns that Dems want to murder babies as soon as they are born, they don't seem to care much about those 'lives' after the birth event.

Your point was extremely obvious and I certainly got it.

I had thought my response was equally obvious.

Some opinions can and should be "beyond the pale".  Racism is probably one of them - I don't want to see opinion pieces about how blacks are genetically inferior to whites in the New York Times.

Such "beyond the pale" positions should be quite narrowly construed, and I don't think abortion is one of them.  Reasonable people can have differences of opinion on abortion.

And their opinion was different from yours.

[Barrister]

And their opinion was different from yours.

I'm confident that Kevin Williamson's position on abortion is different than mine.

Remember I subscribe to the Clintonian "safe, legal and rare" formulation on the topic.

[viper37]

And their opinion was different from yours.

Remember I subscribe to the Clintonian "safe, legal and rare" formulation on the topic.

But what is rare?

Quebec has 20 000 - 25 000 abortions per year.  Ontario 30 000 - 45 000.  For Canada, it's roughly 100 000 per year.  Is that rare?  We are now 40 000 000 people living here.
https://www.arcc-cdac.ca/media/2020/07/statistics-abortion-in-canada.pdf

[Valmy]

You create the rareness with a robust birth control and sex education program. Though I know a lot of work needs to be done there. Ideally, though not entirely practically possible, nobody should ever have an unwanted pregnancy.

I presume it is better for ones physical and mental health to just not have abortions because they are not necessary yes? But I admit I haven't really looked into those issues.

[Josquius]

You might as well say basically any form of surgery should be safe, legal and rare though.
It'd be great if nobody got hit by trucks, fell off ladders, cut their hand with a saw, etc...

[Valmy]

You might as well say basically any form of surgery should be safe, legal and rare though.
It'd be great if nobody got hit by trucks, fell off ladders, cut their hand with a saw, etc...

Yes...and?

Of course there is not a powerful political force out there trying to prevent people from getting surgery to repair ones hand. Not yet anyway, who would have thought there would be a powerful political force out there trying to get whooping cough and measles out there again?

[The Minsky Moment]

Such "beyond the pale" positions should be quite narrowly construed, and I don't think abortion is one of them.  Reasonable people can have differences of opinion on abortion.

I thought similarly.

But the horror show that has unfolded in the US since Roe was overturned is narrowing the scope of reasonable opinion on the issue as I see it. The theory that it is possible to have a pro-life policy with strong supports in place and respect and compassion for women simply does not reflect any remotely achievable reality, at least not in America.  And that means continuing to embrace a pro life policy entails very ugly consequences.

[viper37]

You create the rareness with a robust birth control and sex education program. Though I know a lot of work needs to be done there. Ideally, though not entirely practically possible, nobody should ever have an unwanted pregnancy.

I agree.
Quebec has much less abortion than Ontario, almost half has less for the later years, but we have more than half the population.  Sex ed has been a part of education program for a long while.