2024 US Presidential Elections Megathread

[Admiral Yi]

I think the point being made is that "investing" can potentially include perpetuating or amplifying exploitative and unethical activities - and once this is done at the scale of billionaires it is inevitable.

Can you give one or two examples of what you mean?

[Tonitrus]

I've read an article recently that puts Jerry Seinfeld's net worth at almost a billion dollars, as apparently the residuals for Seinfeld episodes are still astronomically lucrative.  Where does he rank on ethics?

I dunno about his ethics...but what I have seen of his personal life/behavior, he seems like a bit of a dick.

[HVC]

I've read an article recently that puts Jerry Seinfeld's net worth at almost a billion dollars, as apparently the residuals for Seinfeld episodes are still astronomically lucrative.  Where does he rank on ethics?

I dunno about his ethics...but what I have seen of his personal life/behavior, he seems like a bit of a dick.

He's a comedian, they're all self loathing dicks. It's where the funny comes from.

Although i think he also likes them young, which is less forgivable

[Jacob]

I think the point being made is that "investing" can potentially include perpetuating or amplifying exploitative and unethical activities - and once this is done at the scale of billionaires it is inevitable.

Can you give one or two examples of what you mean?

You could invest in a jade mine that employs slave labour.

You could invest in a company whose business model is based on creating and fuelling an opioid addiction crisis.

You could invest in a company pursuing lucrative contracts with the Russian military, enabling their genocidal war against Ukraine.

You could invest in a company that squeezes an extra 5% profit margin by accelerating Amazonian deforestation, including facilitating extrajudicial killings of activists and indigenous people.

You could invest in a company that generates revenue by monetizing child pornography, trafficking, and serial abuse and refuses to take steps against those things as it would threaten profits.

[Admiral Yi]

<snip>

So to be clear, this means every billionaire owns companies, or shares in companies that engage in these practices or similar practices?

[Grey Fox]

Yeah. I also think that fundamentally, in our world you cannot have acquired or maintained that level of wealth in a way that is ethical or moral.

Buffet saved and invested.  How is that unethical or immoral?

Capitalism is immoral.

[crazy canuck]

I think the point being made is that "investing" can potentially include perpetuating or amplifying exploitative and unethical activities - and once this is done at the scale of billionaires it is inevitable.

Can you give one or two examples of what you mean?

You could invest in a jade mine that employs slave labour.

You could invest in a company whose business model is based on creating and fuelling an opioid addiction crisis.

You could invest in a company pursuing lucrative contracts with the Russian military, enabling their genocidal war against Ukraine.

You could invest in a company that squeezes an extra 5% profit margin by accelerating Amazonian deforestation, including facilitating extrajudicial killings of activists and indigenous people.

You could invest in a company that generates revenue by monetizing child pornography, trafficking, and serial abuse and refuses to take steps against those things as it would threaten profits.

You could, but what if you don't, how does that affect the theory that having a billion dollars of assets automatically make someone a bad person?

In other words your claim relies upon an assumption that there is no ethical way to create the wealth.

What about the next generation of billionaires who make their wealth generating green energy, mitigating or reversing climate change.  Still horrible people?

[Zoupa]

Yes.

Once you're worth 10 million, my totally made-up but personal threshold, that's it, you get a gold star, bravo, you win capitalism, every extra dollar goes to the state.

[HVC]

Yes.

Once you're worth 10 million, my totally made-up but personal threshold, that's it, you get a gold star, bravo, you win capitalism, every extra dollar goes to the state.

So if you won the lottery you'd give the extra cash away?

"Too much money is only a thing when you're paying it, or someone else is making it."

[Admiral Yi]

Yes.

Once you're worth 10 million, my totally made-up but personal threshold, that's it, you get a gold star, bravo, you win capitalism, every extra dollar goes to the state.

That line appeals more to my sensibilities more than one billion.

I'm wondering if you have any concrete thinking supporting that as the optimal line of wealth distribution.

Not trying to trap you.

[Maladict]

How are you defining fair here?  And how do you define what is a fair share?

A burden that is distributed in proportion to the strength of the shoulders carrying it.

[Josquius]

Yes.

Once you're worth 10 million, my totally made-up but personal threshold, that's it, you get a gold star, bravo, you win capitalism, every extra dollar goes to the state.

Sounds reasonable though everything is perhaps a bit much. I'd probably do more of a tapering off of taxes into silly money so north of there you're on over 90%.
If these mega rich people are being taxed then there's no issue with them pursuing profits.

Though more than this of course the problem is in tackling worth beyond base income. The truly rich don't care about such things. I don't understand enough of taxes to begin to think of a solution there.

[mongers]

Interesting that two of the wealthiest people on this forum are defending the unending pursuit of vast quantities of assets.

[Tamas]

Interesting that two of the wealthiest people on this forum are defending the unending pursuit of vast quantities of assets.

It's a difficult question. People like Gates or Bezos, when it's not hindsight but in the flow of things how do you judge it's time to stop the behaviours which have brought you success? When to say OK I am stopping hiring people, I am stopping growing I am stopping investing, and of course yes I am stopping eliminating competitors.

So I am not keen on grabbing pitchforks but on the other hand undue influence on society by powerful actors and the fight against this has been a common theme through history, and we should not ignore this danger just because it's exact form is new and the least violent so far.

[mongers]

Interesting that two of the wealthiest people on this forum are defending the unending pursuit of vast quantities of assets.

It's a difficult question. People like Gates or Bezos, when it's not hindsight but in the flow of things how do you judge it's time to stop the behaviours which have brought you success? When to say OK I am stopping hiring people, I am stopping growing I am stopping investing, and of course yes I am stopping eliminating competitors.

So I am not keen on grabbing pitchforks but on the other hand undue influence on society by powerful actors and the fight against this has been a common theme through history, and we should not ignore this danger just because it's exact form is new and the least violent so far.

Yes, a good point, maybe we've been lucky that Gates is ploughing his money into real human development, but we shouldn't be replying on the off-chance that hugely powerful individuals will choose to spend their resources, political and financial, on 'good causes'.