God Save The King

[Sheilbh]

On queues I found the one in Hong Kong to place flowers or sign the book of condolence on quite sad. I read that at times on Monday it was 3-4 hours long and it's hard not to read that as primarily being about what's happening in Hong Kong now.

Rather than any sympathy for the Queen or British rule, more a general mourning for a past Hong Kong that is being changed by the Chinese state

[Josephus]

In 87 I lined up for 11 hours to get Pink Floyd tickets.

[PJL]

On queues I found the one in Hong Kong to place flowers or sign the book of condolence on quite sad. I read that at times on Monday it was 3-4 hours long and it's hard not to read that as primarily being about what's happening in Hong Kong now.

Rather than any sympathy for the Queen or British rule, more a general mourning for a past Hong Kong that is being changed by the Chinese state

I think there's lot of that here in the UK as well.

[Barrister]

In 87 I lined up for 11 hours to get Pink Floyd tickets.

In '07 or '08 the White Stripes were doing a Canadian tour, including appearances in every province and territory.  So that included them having a show at a 400 seat venue in Whitehorse, YT.  So for the only time in my life I lined up overnight.  I slept in a camping chair (that had a built in footrest) covered in a tarp for when it lightly rained.  It was 30 year old me along mostly with a bunch of high school and college students.

When tickets went on sale I was about 5 from the front when tickets were sold out.

[Sheilbh]

Also, found it weirdly touching that David Beckham waited 12 hours in the queue for his turn.

I've seen lots of reports of people having a great time chatting to their queue-neighbours and some exchanging numbers after they've paid the respects. It's very nice. Saw one Muslim guy on Twitter say this was the "English Hajj", which seems fair

They also closed the formal queue today for the first time as it reached its maximum length - so there were queues to join the Queue. Expectec queuing time right now is over 24 hours

Lovely piece by the Washington Post on this:

The British love queues. The queen's death brought one for the ages.
By Karla Adam
Updated September 15, 2022 at 6:04 p.m. EDT|Published September 15, 2022 at 11:06 a.m. EDT

LONDON — It is the queue to end all queues.

The line to see Queen Elizabeth II lying in state stretched from Westminster Hall, across the River Thames and then onward, past the London Eye Ferris wheel and the Tate Modern museum and Tower Bridge. On Thursday evening, it reached as far as Southwark Park in Southeast London.

A government tracker on YouTube said Thursday night it was nearly 5 miles long. That was an underestimate, though. A government spokeswoman confirmed to The Washington Post that the distance measured was "as the crow flies" and didn't include the labyrinthine zigzag section in the home stretch.

But the mourners have been undeterred. Their beloved monarch has died, and they are determined to pay their respects. If they have to wait eight hours? Ten hours? They would prefer sooner rather than later, but they are fully committed.

After all, forming a queue is what the British do. Americans like to call it a "line," but that word doesn't quite encompass the almost holy rule-bound nature the British have developed of waiting patiently behind someone to achieve a goal.

Asked to explain the concept of British queuing, Robin Wight, 78, launched into an impassioned speech.

"The queue is something that we have in Britain. ... We're used to being obedient in that way," said Wight, who was about a five-minute walk — or more than two hours away — from the front. "But this queue is different to all other queues I've ever been in. Because everybody here is here for a purpose: to see the queen."

"If you go to Stansted Airport, you're in a queue for your holiday. Well, that's fine," he continued. "But here, this is not a queue, this is a magical moment we're all sharing together."

When he finished, thousands around him broke into (polite) applause.

This reporter joined the queue around 6 p.m. on Wednesday evening, meeting people who were planning to stay up all night if they had to see the queen's coffin, which is lying in state — draped in the imperial standard and bearing the imperial state crown on a purple velvet pillow — until the funeral Monday morning.

I was quickly educated in queen queue decorum. Get a wristband with a number and obey that number. Stay in the queue. Do not push or shove. Do not cut.

There was a rumor that someone, six snaking rows in front of us, tried to jump the queue. But then someone else pointed out that this was unverified, as if to suggest the very notion was slightly scandalous.

Later it emerged that lawmakers had been given passes to jump to the front of the queue along with four guests of their choosing — which has, unsurprisingly, caused a stir. "Revolutions have been sparked by less," wrote the Telegraph's Tom Harris.

For context: In a major speech on Brexit in 2018, then-Prime Minister Theresa May called Europeans in Britain queue jumpers. That was considered a serious insult.

In line for the queen, people formed little queuing families. As they hours stretched on, they banded together and offered comfort. They shared biscuits and tea and, sometimes, stronger drinks. Strangers who would normally never talk to each other in public situations were suddenly fiercely loyal. If you needed to use the toilet — there were portable "loos"; this was a well-planned queue, after all — then your queuing family held your place in line.

Everyone had a story about the queen: about times they saw her or met her or received a medal from her or had her as a boss. Surveys show that about a third of Britons met or saw the queen in person during her 70-year reign.

"The queen personally put this around my neck. It was a magic moment," said Wight, the philosopher of queues, about his Royal Victorian Order medal for raising millions for charity. "I really want to come and say goodbye to her, with all these people here. ... I'd stay here for 30 hours if I had to."

Hilary Beckley worked as a chef for Princess Margaret, the queen's sister, and Beckley's husband, Gary, worked as a palace carpenter.

"We met through the royal family. We have been married for 31 years," said Beckley, 61. "We couldn't not come."
After many hours of waiting, people in a long line for the visitation in Westminster Hall finally reach the Palace of Westminster. (Sarah L. Voisin/The Washington Post)

Of course, the queen was not just head of state of United Kingdom, but of 14 other countries — and head of the Commonwealth, which covers a third of the planet. Her death has stirred conflicted feelings in places scarred by the legacy of British colonialism. And several Commonwealth realms are reassessing their relationships with the crown.

But Queen Elizabeth II also had fans around the world, with many people explaining that they separated her as an individual from imperial rule. The queue for the queen has been a testament to her international appeal.

The first three ladies were from Sri Lanka, Wales and Ghana. The Washington Post also interviewed people from India, Bangladesh, Ireland, Germany, Sierra Leone, the United States, Spain, Italy, Hong Kong, China, Australia — to name a few countries. They spoke of her mostly scandal-free life, which made her a model, and her children's scandalous lives, which made her seem human. They referenced her devotion to country, sense of humor, work ethic, travels abroad, longevity.

Joyce Skeete, 74, a retired nurse, has lived her adult life in London but was born and raised in Barbados, where she was a star netball player. As a 14-year-old, she was invited to have a meal with the queen, who was visiting one of her realms. "She has given her whole life to this country and all the other countries," she said. "I think, for her, it is worth queuing."

The queen queue has become a thing of its own. This isn't the "mother of all queues" — that title can be retired. This is "The Queue."

"I don't particularly care either way about the Queen. But the queue? The Queue is a triumph of Britishness. It's incredible," wrote one social media user in a post that went viral. #QueueForTheQueen was trending on social media.

Another pointed out that "queue" is a beautiful word: "The actual important letter, and then four more silently waiting behind it in a line."

For those of us joining the queue Wednesday night, it started off well enough. We moved forward at a decent clip — offering a false sense of optimism about how it would all unfold. About four or five hours in, things started looking bleak, as we hit the zigzag section, reminiscent of a bad day at the airport.

We learned that a royal guard standing next to the queen's coffin fainted around 1 a.m., putting everything on pause for a bit.

Then, finally, we were inside. After 7-1/2 hours of leisurely chattiness in the queue, the scene inside Westminster Hall was starkly different.

Mourners entering the hall, with its cavernous hammer-beam roof, were met with silence.

Still in an orderly line, we were guided past the queen's coffin, on its raised platform, guarded by soldiers wearing bearskin hats. Some mourners bowed and curtsied or nodded or whispered "thank you." Anyone inclined to linger was urged along by officials motioning that it was time to go.

"It's a whole other atmosphere in there, the world around you stops and you're in the moment," said Megan Foy, 35, after leaving the hall.

She was there with her husband and their 9-month-old daughter and said they had "only" queued for six hours, reaching the hall around 2 a.m. "We got to skirt around a little bit because of the buggy situation," she said, referring to her stroller.

But for our portion of the queue, the waiting wasn't quite over. A funeral rehearsal was underway in the wee hours of the morning, and no one was allowed to walk through the area around Westminster while the soldiers practiced their marching.

And so, together with everyone else who had just exited the hall, we were back in another queue.

Edit: Interesting the reporter who wrote that piece said she was genuinely surprised how many people had previously met or seen the Queen. I suppose that is the bit of the "working" royals that means there is this sort of reaction - all the ribbon cuttings, walkabouts, garden parties, honours ceremonies etc mean a crazy number of people have a personal story about the royals.

Edit: Incidentally Charles won't be "Defender of faith" but he did have a meeting with faith leaders today and spoke of his "duty to protect the diversity of our country" and his responsibility as sovereign to defend the practising of all "religions, cultures, traditions and beliefs". In line with his view of Britain as a "community of communities". In a way what you'd expect from a King who's spent time learning Arabic so he can read the Quran and is a big fan of the Sufi tradition as well as Greek Orthodoxy - but I think an early sign (along with discussing climate change with Macron) of how the monarchy will subtly change under Charles.

Not great that I think an inherited sovereign has a better grasp on modern Britain ("community of communities" is a great description - often overlapping etc) than the elected government ("muscular unionism" etc)

[mongers]

Props to David Beckham for spending 12 hours in the queue to see the lying in state, I'm sure he could have pulled some strings if he wanted to.

BBC map of the queue, which I prefer as it's better suited to webpages:

[OttoVonBismarck]

I always found it odd that the British monarch still uses the title "Defender of the Faith", as I understand it, that is a Catholic honorary title the Pope gave King Henry VIII when he published a pamphlet attacking critics of the church.

[Sheilbh]

I always found it odd that the British monarch still uses the title "Defender of the Faith", as I understand it, that is a Catholic honorary title the Pope gave King Henry VIII when he published a pamphlet attacking critics of the church.

They never gave it back

The funeral is traditionally organised by the Dukes of Norfolk who are the most senior recusant, Catholic aristocracy for an Anglican monarch, who swears to protect the "true" Protestant and Presbyterian church in Scotland - and worships as a Presbyterian in Scotland (by all accounts the Windsors prefer the Presbyterian church and are very low church in their tastes).

Reality is it just refects the complicated and compromised legacy of the Reformation and the civil war.

[Tamas]

I always found it odd that the British monarch still uses the title "Defender of the Faith", as I understand it, that is a Catholic honorary title the Pope gave King Henry VIII when he published a pamphlet attacking critics of the church.

It goes well with a multi-faith pluralistic society.

Not.

[HVC]

He also wants the title defender of the faiths, so, inclusivity I guess. Unless you're an atheist, then fu

[Sheilbh]

It goes well with a multi-faith pluralistic society.

Not.

And yet, the last Chancellor and almost PM is a practicing Hindu. His two predecessors were Muslim. The Home Secretary is Buddhist and her predecessor was a Hindu. The leader of the opposition and possible next PM affirms his oath because he's an atheist.

Not perfect (I suspect a hijab wearing woman would face far more challenges), but I'm not convinced that suggests a problem for a multi-faith pluralistic society. Particularly when he's also head of state of, say, Canada.

[Tamas]

It goes well with a multi-faith pluralistic society.

Not.

And yet, the last Chancellor and almost PM is a practicing Hindu. His two predecessors were Muslim. The Home Secretary is Buddhist and her predecessor was a Hindu. The leader of the opposition and possible next PM affirms his oath because he's an atheist.

Not perfect (I suspect a hijab wearing woman would face far more challenges), but I'm not convinced that suggests a problem for a multi-faith pluralistic society. Particularly when he's also head of state of, say, Canada.

Exactly. It's a silly thing to be still brandishing that title around.

[Sheilbh]

Exactly. It's a silly thing to be still brandishing that title around.

The death and proclamation of a new monarch is literally the only time they "brandish" it

But as with the oath about the Scottish church, I'm sure it'd be relatively easy to change it's just a bit political ask for a government to justify spending parliamentary time on the Act of Union (both parliaments) or royal titles or the establishment of the CofE. Especially when they don't seem to have blocked the development of a pluralistic, multi-faith society.

[Richard Hakluyt]

We've been governed by an unpleasant faction of an unpleasant party for the past 6 years as if they had overwhelming support. Putting that right has far higher priority imo.

Until we get a mad monarch I don't think the republican movement will get anywhere at all. But we can lay the groundwork for it by reforming the electoral system for the Commons and replacing the Lords with something more democratic.

[mongers]

We've been governed by an unpleasant faction of an unpleasant party for the past 6 years as if they had overwhelming support. Putting that right has far higher priority imo.

Until we get a mad monarch I don't think the republican movement will get anywhere at all. But we can lay the groundwork for it by reforming the electoral system for the Commons and replacing the Lords with something more democratic.

Indeed.