God Save The King

[Tamas]

Wow so much has changed since then.

Which is an interesting generic point and I don't necessarily mean it applies to the UK in any negative way - what determines when a society prefers to embrace new instead of the traditional?

Those uniforms, that arrangement were once brand new. At some point, society was not afraid to try a new thing for a funeral.

Umm, the hats on top pic weren't white.

Ok, I stand corrected.    I guess that how it happens: one cap-colour at a time.

[Habbaku]

I believe that they changed out the body inside the coffin.

[Zanza]

Wow so much has changed since then.

Which is an interesting generic point and I don't necessarily mean it applies to the UK in any negative way - what determines when a society prefers to embrace new instead of the traditional?

Those uniforms, that arrangement were once brand new. At some point, society was not afraid to try a new thing for a funeral.

Apparently the whole show was invented by Victoria's son and has no tradition before Victoria's funeral.

[PJL]

Wow so much has changed since then.

Which is an interesting generic point and I don't necessarily mean it applies to the UK in any negative way - what determines when a society prefers to embrace new instead of the traditional?

Those uniforms, that arrangement were once brand new. At some point, society was not afraid to try a new thing for a funeral.

Apparently the whole show was invented by Victoria's son and has no tradition before Victoria's funeral.

The Royal Family as we know it is basically a Victorian invention anyway.

[mongers]

No great surprise as the Queen was present at both events and probably designed her own funeral with her vision firmly set on that of her father.

I'd note some differences, the grenadier guards, gentlemen thingys and the 'beefeaters' are all wearing great coats, it was a very cold day, yet in 1952 the Navy were still tough enough to go without.

Also the royal family walked behind the Queens coffin, where as in 1952 they either rode or I think in the Queen's case rode in a carriage (?) .

[HVC]

Saw a clip of the Mounties, they looked cool at least.

[Legbiter]

Saw a clip of the Mounties, they looked cool at least.

Yeah plus the Royal Company of Archers.

[Valmy]

Oh dear, the care of the Queens last two corgis has been entrusted to Prince Andrew and his ex-wife, Sarah. :-(

How does that work? Does Andrew get custody on the weekends?

[The Larch]

Saw a clip of the Mounties, they looked cool at least.

Yeah plus the Royal Company of Archers.

Just read that it's a purely ceremonial unit from the XIXth century. So, more Victorian era pageantry. 

[Josephus]

Ok, I stand corrected.    I guess that how it happens: one cap-colour at a time.

Change in the monarchy is slow. Give it time. When Charles dies, they're gonna change the bearskin hats to polar bear hats.

[garbon]

Oh dear, the care of the Queens last two corgis has been entrusted to Prince Andrew and his ex-wife, Sarah. :-(

How does that work? Does Andrew get custody on the weekends?

They live together.

[Valmy]

He lives with his ex-wife?

Huh. Well I guess their house is probably really big or something.

[Threviel]

So. There were representatives of the militaries of the commonwealth in the procession. But only from the big countries she was queen of, namely Australia, UK, Canada and NZ. Which means that of the 15 states that were mourning 11 had no representation in the funeral procession.

How come?

[Sheilbh]

Just read that it's a purely ceremonial unit from the XIXth century. So, more Victorian era pageantry. 

I'd go further.

They are the royal bodyguard in Scotland and are created for the 1822 trip to Edinburgh by George IV. I think the first time a monarch had been in Scotland since Charles I - and between them you have 1688, the Hannoverian succession and two Jacobite revolts.

But he gets Sir Walter Scott to manage proceedings and I think there's a genuine case that betweeen this and his novels Scott creates the image of modern Scotland and, in large part, the UK too. Scott covers everything in tartan - which until then was associated with the Highlands, not all of Scotland and also with Jacobitism. He gets everyone wearing kilts (including George IV) while they'd been banned before.

He infuses the whole thing with a sort of Waverley spirit of being romantically inclined to the Highlands and Jacobitism, but rationally proceeding with union and the Hannoverians. They're there with a Hannoverian monarch, but everyone dresses up as if they're in the court of Bonnie Prince Charlie. Off the top of my head Edinburgh Waverley is the only train station named after a fictional character (and he has an incredible monument in Edinburgh too) but the whole castles and lochs and tartans as the image of Scotland (as opposed to, say, Edinburgh of the Scottish Enlightenment) is an invention of Scott and particularly 1822.

So it's not just the Archers, but the massed pipes and drums of the funeral and the lone piper that are relatively modern creations.

Wow so much has changed since then.

Surely you could do the same of, say, inaugurations of American Presidents. All that's changed in about 100 years is the hats and outfits people wear. Or, of the Bastille Day parade. As I say I love proper republican pagaentry but like all ceremony it tends to follow a form, no?

Which is an interesting generic point and I don't necessarily mean it applies to the UK in any negative way - what determines when a society prefers to embrace new instead of the traditional?

Those uniforms, that arrangement were once brand new. At some point, society was not afraid to try a new thing for a funeral.

Zanza's right it's a relatively modern creation - the coronation is similar. But it does the thing that the Victorians do a lot of creating something new and pretending it's ancient.

You have reforms of the courts and parliament and voting, as well as huge social shifts and it is dressed in neo-Gothic. All of the trappings are often new, but designed to look (like a Victorian idea of the) Medieval.

With the royals in particular while I don't go fully 'The Invention of Tradition' (though it's great) - I think it is really striking that at the start of the 19th century when they have genuine political power (basically at the level of a US President) there's very little ceremonial. Funerals go wrong, Victoria's coronation is a disaster (the Archbishop of Canterbury repeatedly loses his place, tries to put the "sovereign's ring" on the wrong finger etc). At the start of the 20th (and 21st) century - they have no political power but a lot of ceremonial at least for big events. It's very visual Lampedusa - everything must change for everything to stay the same.

In part and this gets to the weird personal-state element of monarchy - a lot of the funeral would have been decided by the Queen. I think it will be at least a little different with Charles because he grew up at a different point. Although I did think there was something weird about Charles, William and his son sat there watching a ceremony that will basically happen for them - I suppose we all have that at funerals.

But also I think there's something about iteration. Change happens when we repeat something often enough, if there's 70 years between events and nothing underlying it has changed then I don't think it's likely to change?

[Admiral Yi]

Why archers in Scotland?  Longbow was more of a English and Welsh thing, no?  William Wallace didn't even have any bowmen AFAIK.