NCAA Hoops: 2021-2022

[Berkut]

Well, it seems odd we don't have a thread this year.


It's been a hell of a year, and Michigans head coach punching another coach in the head after a game because he was mad that the other team called a timeout late in the game seems like something worth noting.


https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/nolan-finley/2022/02/20/michigan-basketball-coach-juwan-howard-should-fired-finley/6873261001/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR15MyizwzjkS-40FLVKdrSOEjrHcbbeuoCknCd3AOmm8JERZ3asC8c2quU#Echobox=1645395506

That seems like a fireable offense, at least it ought to be at Michigan, which is well known for being a pretty class institution that actually cares about sportsmanship and such.

My Wildcats are freaking #2 in the country in Tommy Lloyds first year as a head coach. If he doesn't get Coach of the Year, there is some kind of serious injustice in the world!

[Berkut]

Obviously I watched this because it is all about Arizona, but this is really, really cool if you are any kind of basketball fan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3PIcvuHSc

"The Fastest Team in the Country"

[grumbler]

Well, it seems odd we don't have a thread this year.


It's been a hell of a year, and Michigans head coach punching another coach in the head after a game because he was mad that the other team called a timeout late in the game seems like something worth noting.


https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/nolan-finley/2022/02/20/michigan-basketball-coach-juwan-howard-should-fired-finley/6873261001/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR15MyizwzjkS-40FLVKdrSOEjrHcbbeuoCknCd3AOmm8JERZ3asC8c2quU#Echobox=1645395506

That seems like a fireable offense, at least it ought to be at Michigan, which is well known for being a pretty class institution that actually cares about sportsmanship and such.

My Wildcats are freaking #2 in the country in Tommy Lloyds first year as a head coach. If he doesn't get Coach of the Year, there is some kind of serious injustice in the world!

Michigan isn't going to fire Howard over this, but I'd be surprised to see coach again in the five remaining games of the season.  There will be some Wisconsin suspensions as well.

I sure would like to know what Joe Krabbenhoft said that precipitated the slap (and it was open-handed, so not a punch).  You can see on the video that even the cop trying to break things up was shocked.  If he had dropped the N-bomb, we'd already know it.   Nothing can excuse Howard's behavior though.

[grumbler]

Interestingly, none of the Wisconsin coaches who stuck and manhandled Michigan players were even mentioned in the conference or school punishments.  In fact, the Wisconsin AD commended their behavior.

Howard suspended for the rest of the regular season, as I predicted.  He also (finally) made a full apology.  Wisconsin head coach Greg Gard, whose assault on Howard started the ruckus, fined $10,000 (in all fairness, though, I don't think he had malicious intent when he stepped in front of Howard and grabbed him, but he should have known that grabbing a guy that's mad at you isn't wise).

[Berkut]

<deleted argument>


I really don't want to get into a big argument about what happened with Howard. It's not interesting to me, really.


I will note that from my perspective, as a non-Michigan fan who likes Michigan (a mini-fan? Secondary fan?), them keeping him as their coach severely damages the brand that makes them attractive to me, and leave it at that.

[Berkut]

And for the record, I could not care less about Wisconsin and Gard. Hell I could not have told you who the coach was at Wisconsin before this.

And I *like* Michigan. They are my favorite non-Pac12 program in the country in both football and basketball.

But if they keep Howard, I will be rooting against them. What an asshole.

He needs to be fired. He attacked another coach.

[Berkut]

Obviously I watched this because it is all about Arizona, but this is really, really cool if you are any kind of basketball fan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR3PIcvuHSc

"The Fastest Team in the Country"

Anyone else watch this?

I really did find it fascinating. As a basketball official, I am really intrigued by basketball strategy, and a video like this I find super insightful.

For me, football strategy is very intuitive. I am not a coach, but mostly I can tell what teams and coaches are trying to do, and can recognize the football strategy in a formation, play, mis-direction, etc., etc.

I do not have that intuitive grasp for basketball at all. About 70% if what this video was talking about I never would have recognized as a fan beyond "Arizona has really tall players, and they love to run and fast break and are really damn good at it!"

[grumbler]

And for the record, I could not care less about Wisconsin and Gard. Hell I could not have told you who the coach was at Wisconsin before this.

And I *like* Michigan. They are my favorite non-Pac12 program in the country in both football and basketball.

But if they keep Howard, I will be rooting against them. What an asshole.

He needs to be fired. He attacked another coach.

Well, he's not going to be fired, so I guess you can root for whom you want.  Yes, it was an asshole move, but that doesn't make him an asshole.  He's actually a very unselfish leader who came back to coach at his alma mater because he wanted to give Michigan players the same care and love he got as a player there.  He does need to get some professional anger management help, though.  He had a hothead moment at Maryland last year, so this wasn't a totally isolated incident.

[Berkut]

I don't expect anyone to care about how I root for, of course.

And I know that I am not typical in how I tolerate what I see as lacking in character or sportsmanship when it comes to athletics, and college sports. Overall my view is that most schools do not care nearly enough about those things, and most schools just pay lip service to them, and if Charles Manson could get them a couple more wins, why, that is an acceptable price to pay.

But that is WHY I like Michigan! I mean, I like that they have this idea of being about more then just winning. Maybe it is all a marketing myth, but there is a reason I like them instead of Texas or some damn SEC team.

I don't doubt that Howard is a great guy in a lot of ways. But I bet Bobby Knight was a great guy in a lot of ways as well.

So my point is just that I think Michigan has a brand that they ought to care about, and shit like this is not just not aligned with that brand, it is exactly the opposite of it.

But yeah, I don't expect Michigan or Michigan fans to give two shits about what I think, except that I might represent the perception of their national brand being something different from all the other schools out there...

[crazy canuck]

And for the record, I could not care less about Wisconsin and Gard. Hell I could not have told you who the coach was at Wisconsin before this.

And I *like* Michigan. They are my favorite non-Pac12 program in the country in both football and basketball.

But if they keep Howard, I will be rooting against them. What an asshole.

He needs to be fired. He attacked another coach.

Well, he's not going to be fired, so I guess you can root for whom you want.  Yes, it was an asshole move, but that doesn't make him an asshole.  He's actually a very unselfish leader who came back to coach at his alma mater because he wanted to give Michigan players the same care and love he got as a player there.  He does need to get some professional anger management help, though.  He had a hothead moment at Maryland last year, so this wasn't a totally isolated incident.

There is a lot to like about Howard.  Glad they are going to give him a chance to learn how to channel anger when it erupts.  On the court there was an easy outlet but not as a coach - whole different skill set.

[grumbler]

And for the record, I could not care less about Wisconsin and Gard. Hell I could not have told you who the coach was at Wisconsin before this.

And I *like* Michigan. They are my favorite non-Pac12 program in the country in both football and basketball.

But if they keep Howard, I will be rooting against them. What an asshole.

He needs to be fired. He attacked another coach.

Well, he's not going to be fired, so I guess you can root for whom you want.  Yes, it was an asshole move, but that doesn't make him an asshole.  He's actually a very unselfish leader who came back to coach at his alma mater because he wanted to give Michigan players the same care and love he got as a player there.  He does need to get some professional anger management help, though.  He had a hothead moment at Maryland last year, so this wasn't a totally isolated incident.

There is a lot to like about Howard.  Glad they are going to give him a chance to learn how to channel anger when it erupts.  On the court there was an easy outlet but not as a coach - whole different skill set.

Agreed.  It's not like Howard is totally corrupt like Sean Miller was.  And Miller got 12 years of the blind eye.  No one who supported him can say anything about "lacking in character or sportsmanship."

[Berkut]

[Berkut]

And I did not support Miller. I thought he should have been fired when the first ESPN story broke, assuming the internal investigation actually supported the claims ESPN was making.

Then it turned out that those claims did not seem to be supported, so he came back.

Since then, I've been decidedly ambivalent about him being retained. Best case scenario he had some assistants doing some shady shit he wasn't aware of, but should have been aware of.

Worst case he set up the system to give himself plausible deniability to stuff he knew perfectly well was going on in broad terms.

Either way, if I was in charge I would have fired him a long time ago. College athletics ought to be about more then just winning, and there was enough stink around the Ayton situation that the coach should have been shown the door.

Going to have to try a bit harder to pick that fight grumbler.


Ignoring, of course, the fact that no matter what Sean Miller did or did not do, attacking another coach after a game isn't excusable. That is some Trumpian level "whataboutism".

[crazy canuck]

Gard got into Howard's face first - the only that that saved the short dumpy white guy from the same criticism is he lacks the same athleticism and wing span of Howard to come out the better in the scrum that ensued.  Characterizing what happened as Howard "attacking" an innocent is some Trumpian level rhetoric.

They are both blameworthy and they both were sanctioned.

With Miller you take the convenient out of relying on decisions made (questionable at best) which allowed him to continue.  But for Howard you have a very different standard, you are making your own judgments about what should happen.  Why is that Berkut?

[Berkut]

I make my own judgements about what ought to have happened in both cases. I am equally powerless to effect either of them.

I think they both should have been fired. Which I said rather clearly.

I don't understand your question. Are you asking me why I am still an Arizona fan despite them not firing Miller?

I went to school there. No reason other then that. But I am quite capable of evaluating the actions of my alma mater without the need to defend them when they do something I think is wrong.