Is There 'A Hill You're Prepared To Die On' ?

[Eddie Teach]

Well, it was no Toy Story, but not planet-killer bad... 

[Tamas]

Cars.

Seriously fuck cars.


They destroyed society and are destroying the planet.

[mongers]

Better than the Netherlands, which only has one hill worth dying on.

I do intend to be buried on one, although technically it's a moraine rather than a hill.
Although the thought of a lowland cemetery, to be submerged by the sea, is not entirely unappealing either. Plus, more land for the living.

Mal, I was trying to refer 'dying' on the race up that 983ft or so hill in the far south, isn't it called Limburg or similar??

Don't know the name of the race up it either.

[Maladict]

Mal, I was trying to refer 'dying' on the race up that 983ft or so hill in the far south, isn't it called Limburg or similar??

Don't know the name of the race up it either.

The famous one is where the Amstel Gold Race ends, on top of the Cauberg (450 ft). But it's only 230 ft of altitude gain.

There are tougher hills, none of them worth dying on though.

[Josquius]

Cars.

Seriously fuck cars.


They destroyed society and are destroying the planet.

Just because you don't think of the big picture and only consider yourself in the car centric world :p

[HVC]

I agree. Bring back the horse and cart!

[Josquius]

I agree. Bring back the horse and cart!

[HVC]

Easier to get around the city or bring groceries home in a horse and buggy

[Sheilbh]

Easier to get around the city or bring groceries home in a horse and buggy

Easier to live in a city when the focus was on living on them - not cars. An extreme example, but 50s Cincinnati v now with City Hall as a reference. As I say this was a choice shaped by policy decisions - at least in Europe we normally have the excuse of carpet bombing:

[HVC]

I live downtown so get by without driving just fine. But I recognize not everyone can. Especially outside of major cities or super dense European countries. Should public transportation be taken more seriously? Sure. But are the destroying society? Come on. For someone who hates london tyr has a very big city attitude lol.

[Josquius]

I live downtown so get by without driving just fine. But I recognize not everyone can. Especially outside of major cities or super dense European countries. Should public transportation be taken more seriously? Sure. But are the destroying society? Come on. For someone who hates london tyr has a very big city attitude lol.

You've got things backwards there.
That so many are obliged to own a car just to live their lives is the fundamental problem to be tackled, not some uncomfortable "but what about..." side issue that I didn't think about.
I grew up in the sort of place where you have no choice but to drive. It sucks. I really do believe it's a key factor in the downfall of community cohesion and people fundamentally giving a shit. Not to mention a massive driver of inequality.
And as shielbhs post shows this is a very modern and very intentional development. Not the natural state of things.

And disagree it's a big city attitude. I've seen plenty of smaller towns and cities that manage to avoid being car centric.

[garbon]

I love driving.

[crazy canuck]

...at least in Europe we normally have the excuse of carpet bombing:

In the 70s a Vancouver city council voted in favour of building a freeway through the city, much like what happened in the US city you posted.  Part of the work started, but then an incoming council reversed the decision and to this day there is no freeway running through the city core, making it much more livable.  The on ramps to what was to have been the freeway have been a constant source of debate - but finally those have been repurposed and largely removed.

[Josquius]

...at least in Europe we normally have the excuse of carpet bombing:

In the 70s a Vancouver city council voted in favour of building a freeway through the city, much like what happened in the US city you posted.  Part of the work started, but then an incoming council reversed the decision and to this day there is no freeway running through the city core, making it much more livable.  The on ramps to what was to have been the freeway have been a constant source of debate - but finally those have been repurposed and largely removed.

Similar story in Newcastle only we got further ahead with our "the future is in cars" plans before the council realised induced demand would kill them.
As a result today we have a weird highway that runs for less than a mile before dumping all its cars on a busy road just before a major bridge, a small stretch of motorway that cuts the east of the city centre off and you can only go 50mph...another stretch of motorway with limited speed limits around a shopping street, dumping its traffic on either side onto two very dangerous roundabouts, and all sorts of other terrible half arsed concoctions.
For many years on the main shopping street it was notable that one of the main banks was on the second floor and you had to use an escalator to access it-the original plan was for the entire city centre to be on raised walk ways with cars dominating the ground level. They're starting to be demolished this past decade or two but there's a lot of remnants of this project to be seen.

One "nice" thing in Newcastle that runs contrary to the stereotypical american example is it was largely up market posh neighbourhoods that got fucked over by this


Edit - the gateshead highway, what I find the worst part of it...

https://www.roads.org.uk/photo/gateshead-highway

[Sheilbh]

In the 70s a Vancouver city council voted in favour of building a freeway through the city, much like what happened in the US city you posted.  Part of the work started, but then an incoming council reversed the decision and to this day there is no freeway running through the city core, making it much more livable.  The on ramps to what was to have been the freeway have been a constant source of debate - but finally those have been repurposed and largely removed.

It almost happened in London in the 60s and 70s too huge elevated ring road in the middle of the city as part of four concentric ring motorways:


Only parts of it were built in the end and it was cancelled due to strong local opposition (this is like NIMBYs as good guys before their downfall in the villain origin story). It's the moment that London diverged from many American cities, I think there's similar in New York with Moses's plans eventually running into the ground.

Most super-dense European cities had plans like this in the 60s and 70s at exactly the same time they were being built in the US and generally they were avoided. But that's just another reason it was a political choice - at the same moment - rather than something in the water.