Electric cars

[Berkut]

I don't have any dog in this fight. I have no problem with bikes. But I have never seen an actual argument from a non-bike enthusiast that bikes are actually a viable means of getting a lot of people around in most scenarios.

In Copenhagen, fully 62% of commutes are by bike.

Seems a pretty viable argument to me.

Though, to be fair, it's not in "most scenarios". It's in one specific scenario, where political (and infrastructure and economical) decisions have been made to support that. But I think that's sufficient. When we're discussing bike lanes in a particular place, we probably shouldn't be deciding whether they're good or bad based on whether "it's viable in most scenarios" merely whether it's viable in that particular scenario.

And I think it's been shown that biking as a means of mass transport can be absolutely viable in a reasonable number of places, if those places commit to it. But to be fair, that commitment is probably not just about "building bike routes".

And I have zero issue with them being leaned on in places where they do in fact make sense.

I am just skeptical of the idea expressed that they would make sense in most place, or many many many more places, except for reasons reasons reasons that amount to what sounds to me like a lot of "just so" thinking.

I think in those places where it makes sense, they absolutely should be accomodated, even to the extent of significantly inconveniences autos.

[mongers]

Not sure what the point of focusing on cyclists, too many cars are the cause of congestion problems; tribalism and group identify perhaps?

[Tamas]

Not sure what the point of focusing on cyclists, too many cars are the cause of congestion problems; tribalism and group identify perhaps?

Well it should be looked at how much extra pollution cyclists are causing by holding up cars making them crawl around at terrible fuel efficiency.

[Grey Fox]

Not sure what the point of focusing on cyclists, too many cars are the cause of congestion problems; tribalism and group identify perhaps?

Want to use roads, don't want to respect any of the rules.

[mongers]

Not sure what the point of focusing on cyclists, too many cars are the cause of congestion problems; tribalism and group identify perhaps?

Want to use roads, don't want to respect any of the rules.

[Sheilbh]

Not sure what the point of focusing on cyclists, too many cars are the cause of congestion problems; tribalism and group identify perhaps?

Yes. All v Jeremy Clarkson.

[garbon]

Not sure what the point of focusing on cyclists, too many cars are the cause of congestion problems; tribalism and group identify perhaps?

Because cyclists can help but bring up cycling.

[Duque de Bragança]

Not sure what the point of focusing on cyclists, too many cars are the cause of congestion problems; tribalism and group identify perhaps?

Want to use roads, don't want to respect any of the rules.

Add in pavements to use roads, and that's the e-scooter riders in a nutshell. 

I still find "cyclists" riding rent bikes way worse than the normal cyclists.
Both rent types also clog public transportation more and more.

[Napoleon XIV]

Any electric drivers here? Anyone driving a Chinese MG?

Did you make a decision?

I drive an electric car (not a bicycle, electric or otherwise) as my daily driver.  It's wonderful.  I have a 2019 Kia Niro EV, which is a slightly larger version of the Hyundai Kona.  Yes, there's plastic in the interior, but, honestly, it doesn't matter to me.  The power train and handling are pretty good even in Eco mode, so, for me, that trumps the interior finish - which is perfectly serviceable and pretty comfortable really.  Further, at least here in the US, it was net of everything about $20k to $25k cheaper than any Tesla (and available instantly from a dealership), and the 0% financing offer was pretty great in the depths of the lock down last May.

My family separately has a 2019 Chevy Bolt and a VW ID.4.  In terms of fit and finish, the ID.4 is definitely the best, though its infotainment system is finicky and kind of poorly set up.

As to battery degradation - I wouldn't worry about that too much.  Studies done of Teslas used as taxis have shown degradation rates way below what would have been expected.  So long as the car has some sort of liquid cooling system and isn't air cooled like the Nissan Leafs, you should be fine.  By way of example, I charge my car to 90% and seldom go below 20%.  I've done ~20k miles so far and there has been no discernible range lost.  I still get around 230 miles (370km) per 90% charge, dipping below that only when its cold (and most of the seemingly lost range comes back as the battery warms up, so meh).  The Bolt has in excess of 40k miles over 2 years and likewise has seen no real range loss either (though because of that LG manufacturing defect it's due to get a new, larger battery for free).  For both cars this may be due to battery over-provisioning.  That is, the stated battery capacity is slightly underrated to account for some initial degradation while you're breaking in the car.  VW is pretty explicit about this in their materials.

One other thing to consider is charging infrastructure.  Would you have a Level 2 charger at your house?

[The Brain]

Sup.

[crazy canuck]

Any electric drivers here? Anyone driving a Chinese MG?

Did you make a decision?

I drive an electric car (not a bicycle, electric or otherwise) as my daily driver.  It's wonderful.  I have a 2019 Kia Niro EV, which is a slightly larger version of the Hyundai Kona.  Yes, there's plastic in the interior, but, honestly, it doesn't matter to me.  The power train and handling are pretty good even in Eco mode, so, for me, that trumps the interior finish - which is perfectly serviceable and pretty comfortable really.  Further, at least here in the US, it was net of everything about $20k to $25k cheaper than any Tesla (and available instantly from a dealership), and the 0% financing offer was pretty great in the depths of the lock down last May.

My family separately has a 2019 Chevy Bolt and a VW ID.4.  In terms of fit and finish, the ID.4 is definitely the best, though its infotainment system is finicky and kind of poorly set up.

As to battery degradation - I wouldn't worry about that too much.  Studies done of Teslas used as taxis have shown degradation rates way below what would have been expected.  So long as the car has some sort of liquid cooling system and isn't air cooled like the Nissan Leafs, you should be fine.  By way of example, I charge my car to 90% and seldom go below 20%.  I've done ~20k miles so far and there has been no discernible range lost.  I still get around 230 miles (370km) per 90% charge, dipping below that only when its cold (and most of the seemingly lost range comes back as the battery warms up, so meh).  The Bolt has in excess of 40k miles over 2 years and likewise has seen no real range loss either (though because of that LG manufacturing defect it's due to get a new, larger battery for free).  For both cars this may be due to battery over-provisioning.  That is, the stated battery capacity is slightly underrated to account for some initial degradation while you're breaking in the car.  VW is pretty explicit about this in their materials.

One other thing to consider is charging infrastructure.  Would you have a Level 2 charger at your house?

I got a Kia Soul about 5 years ago, and love it for city driving.  The main drawback is the range is not that great so travelling outside Vancouver has its limits.

I am looking at getting the new VW ID.4 AWD - planning to test drive it next week - it is only available in BC and I think Quebec atm.   I don't fit in the Bolt so that is definitely out.  I am not entirely sure if I will fit in the VW - the reviews I have read commented on the lack of leg room, so that may be a short test drive.

The other thing I am looking at - but it won't be here until December is the new Hyndai electric - IONIQ 5 - completely new design with lots of leg room because no engine space required...  Finally someone is moving away from the combustion engine designs..


Mrs. CC is lobbying for the Audi ETron and the new BMW that is coming out - so you can see who feels more comfortable with spending on a car 

[Grey Fox]

There are 2 Bolts now.

One is the Bolt EV, where you don't fit CC, and the other is the Bolt EUV which is mid-SUV size. You might fit in it.

The VW ID.4 is available in Quebec. Our provincial subsidy is 8k.

I wish someone out there would actually push an aggressive price point of MSRP at 35K. All those 44999 cars are ridiculous.

[crazy canuck]

Good to know

On pricing, my impression is everyone is setting the base just under the Federal subsidy line.

[viper37]

In Copenhagen, fully 62% of commutes are by bike.

Seems a pretty viable argument to me.

Cophenhagen:





Quebec city:


There's a difference in geography, I think.

Bike is useful there for east-west travels as it'll be on the same elevation.  North-south would be another matter.  Some huge-ass slopes there, to get from the low city to the high city, or that+distance for those living in the near-suburbs.

[Maladict]

Cycling uphill is not that different from cycling into a sustained headwind.