Electric cars

[Josquius]

Beware of the "I've never seen anyone in bike lanes" argument. I see anti cyclist nutters use this one often.
If a road works right then on any given random moment looking at it you'll never see a car.... As they smoothly run through it and don't get stuck in traffic there.

Induced demand does tend to work for cycle lanes too. Though I've zero idea about Edmontons geography  to guess whether it's a remotely sensible place to encourage cycling.

I think the split here is on the road you're taking the risk on yourself. It's down to your skill cycling and the luck that there won't be a stupid / bike hating driver that you survive. Drivers are generally pretty switched on and expecting things like bikes. It seems in your power and any injuries that result you're likely to take on yourself.

On the path meanwhile its not in your power. Pedestrians will act stupid - bikes on the path is normally illegal and not usually seen so of course they're not ready for it - and there's a good chance you'll hit one. You'll be hurting other people here.

Iirc there might be a ridiculously slow speed limit on these shared paths too?

But see? What you describe for the cyclist on the path is very similar to the situation the cyclist on the road puts all car drivers to. Sure, if the cyclist falls over in front of me or something else happens that ain't my fault, the cyclist gets hurt and I probably won't due to the ton of metal around me. But if something serious happens it will be my life on the line, having to hope I won't end up in prison because the situation won't be judged correctly.

Plus, I think the surest way to an early death is assuming car drivers are "pretty switched on". Best advice mar car instructor gave me was "do not assume anything except stupidity" (it was in the context of ensuring I always look in every direction even where people are not supposed to be coming from, but it holds for traffic in general).

Sure, that was an intentional hierarchy.
However choosing to put yourself at risk is fa ar more understandable active than choice than choosing to make yourself the danger with other people not concentrating being a problem..
Especially considering it isn't a straight hierarchy and pedestrians are far more unaware of what's going on around them than road users.
And nobody wants to kill a dog.

[Josquius]

Though must add I'm generally against bike lanes. That's the wrong approach.
We shouldn't be tacking on places for bikes to the side of roads.
Roads in urban areas should be for bikes and people by default with some having car lanes

[Grey Fox]

Bikes & People don't belong on the same road.

[Threviel]

Used electrics have far less range then most new models.  So if you are going to be buying used there should be a pretty steep price difference.

Less range due to design, not battery degradation. Properly cared for the batteries should outlast the car. Most signs seem to point to battery degradation flattening out at 80ish percent.

[Maladict]

The Windsor lane:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4662563,-0.5933267,3a,75y,114.42h,92.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3TaTss0FwIoQyTHc0HF2iw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The one on the main road not too far from me:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5233688,-0.6952619,3a,75y,114.74h,71.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2R0MALMgTGB1bhppRkz8BQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

There's not a lot of space but you could probably narrow the car lanes to allow for a dedicated bike lane.

You can, but should you?

I am all for biking, but from the standpoint of the purpose of roads and bike lanes (to allow people to transport themselves and their stuff from A to B) bikes are terrible. The carrying capacity of a given width of bike lane has to be horrible compared to a similar width of car lane, right? Bikes are just relatively slow, and don't carry very much.

If you could somehow convince 50% of commuters to switch to bikes....well, that actually would probably not be possible, I am guessing, in most congested places. There just would not be enough "bike lane space" to handle that much bicycle traffic even if you took 50% of the existing roads and dedicated them to bikes.

I suspect a road has probably at least an order of magnitude greater carrying capacity then an equivalent width of bike path per "rush hour".

And I suspect, at the end of the day, that is why we very rarely see adequate to the needs of cyclists bike paths in areas where the space is a limited resource.

Fully separated bike lanes would be preferable, but in tight spaces dedicated bike lanes would still be an advantage.
And it doesn't take away from the carrying capacity for cars. It will still be a two-lane road, just safer for bikes (and pedestrians).

This seems to be roughly the same width as the second road Tamas posted:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0832837,4.8800117,3a,75y,61.82h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sW0TLXP-b-xbcb0_emGpWrw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hell, you could even fit in two bike lanes and two tram lanes
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3536763,4.9022393,3a,75y,165.11h,88.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sedZ8RuYiAy5VyW1CDevwLQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[crazy canuck]

I really dislike dedicated bike lanes in Edmonton.  I never see them get used.  It was a "build it and they will come" sort of design philosophy, but one that appears to have failed.

An almost direct quote from someone in Vancouver about 20 years ago.  Of course they were wrong for Vancouver.  And it turns out you are also wrong about Edmonton.

Before the bike network was built, the city counted 2,454 cyclists on May 31. On June 30, the numbers jumped to 4,711, said Olga Messinis, bike network project manager.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-bike-cycle-lane-usage-traffic-car-bike-city-friendly-1.4242814

Number of cyclists up - injuries down

https://www.edmonton.ca/public-files/assets/document?path=The_Downtown_Bike_Network_Interim_Report.pdf

[Maladict]

Though must add I'm generally against bike lanes. That's the wrong approach.
We shouldn't be tacking on places for bikes to the side of roads.
Roads in urban areas should be for bikes and people by default with some having car lanes

I'd rather see roads without any restrictions in dense urban areas, but cars are expected to yield to everyone else.

[crazy canuck]

Used electrics have far less range then most new models.  So if you are going to be buying used there should be a pretty steep price difference.

Less range due to design, not battery degradation. Properly cared for the batteries should outlast the car. Most signs seem to point to battery degradation flattening out at 80ish percent.

Yes, but the source is not point.  Why bother buying old inferior tech?  You wouldn't buy a 486 today would you 

[Threviel]

Yes, but the source is not point.  Why bother buying old inferior tech?  You wouldn't buy a 486 today would you 

I would not buy something with inferior range, correct. Unfortunately the only used cars with sufficient range, driving quality and cheap enough available are 2012-2014 Tesla Model S. Great cars, but doubtful from an automotive perspective.

[HVC]

I'd rather see roads without any restrictions in dense urban areas, but cars are expected to yield to everyone else.

Oh good that would be so annoying for drivers, and i'm not even a driver.

[Eddie Teach]

Faster than interstates during rush hour though.

[mongers]

Though must add I'm generally against bike lanes. That's the wrong approach.
We shouldn't be tacking on places for bikes to the side of roads.
Roads in urban areas should be for bikes and people by default with some having car lanes

I'd rather see roads without any restrictions in dense urban areas, but cars are expected to yield to everyone else.

[viper37]

Though I've zero idea about Edmontons geography  to guess whether it's a remotely sensible place to encourage cycling.

They have nice summers.  For the two days it lasts.   


There's a lot of bycicle lanes around here, in Quebec as well as in my own semi-remote area, and they all see lots of use.

I've nothing against bike lanes, but I'm totally against cycling in the middle of the street during winter.  And there's not enough demand for that time of the year to warrant shoveling the snow.

[Josquius]

Though I've zero idea about Edmontons geography  to guess whether it's a remotely sensible place to encourage cycling.

They have nice summers.  For the two days it lasts.   


There's a lot of bycicle lanes around here, in Quebec as well as in my own semi-remote area, and they all see lots of use.

I've nothing against bike lanes, but I'm totally against cycling in the middle of the street during winter.  And there's not enough demand for that time of the year to warrant shoveling the snow.

I wouldn't dismiss cycling on the basis of cold weather.
Uppsala is a very bike friendly city despite having a blanket of snow for 5 months of the year. The worst part comes in the month or two after that when the snow is sort of melting but keeps refreezing. This creates tram tracks all over which are pretty dangerous.
It helps of course that a lot of the city has proper cycling infrastructure and not just a corner of busy roads road painted as a bike lane. Segregation is really under rated.

[garbon]

Though must add I'm generally against bike lanes. That's the wrong approach.
We shouldn't be tacking on places for bikes to the side of roads.
Roads in urban areas should be for bikes and people by default with some having car lanes

I'd rather see roads without any restrictions in dense urban areas, but cars are expected to yield to everyone else.

That photo looks like hell.