Electric cars

[Grey Fox]

Kind of impossible to have a manual electric motor.

Yes. But its a trade off you never really hear mentioned around electrics.

Because unless you are racing, manual transmission is a cost saving disadvantage that has been turned into an "I am man enough not to need an automatic transmission" thing :p

I don't care about cars. I see no status in them. Neither I nor my GF see driving a normal car as a macho thing.  Automatics are just harder to drive as they give you less control.

Well, that's not a feeling I understand.

[DGuller]

Because unless you are racing, manual transmission is a cost saving disadvantage that has been turned into an "I am man enough not to need an automatic transmission" thing :p

It's been a disadvantage in racing as well for at least 20 years.  If not restricted by rules, racing cars would have automatic transmission with maybe an option for override.

[Tamas]

BTW somebody mentioned engine break: I regularly engine break with my automatic when on hilly terrain, there's a "manual" mode where you can manually switch between 3 "gears". I also use it once per 5 years when there's noticeable snow on the roads and want more manual control over my max/min gears.

[Duque de Bragança]

Because unless you are racing, manual transmission is a cost saving disadvantage that has been turned into an "I am man enough not to need an automatic transmission" thing :p

It's been a disadvantage in racing as well for at least 20 years.  If not restricted by rules, racing cars would have automatic transmission with maybe an option for override.

What kind of racing are we talking about? Formula 1 pioneered the use of sequential transmission (semi-automatic) long ago.

[DGuller]

One of the few times I drove a true automatic (as apposed to automated manuals like DSG) was when I drove a rented car at Pikes Peak.  The park rangers actually remind you time and again to use engine braking when going downhill, and to avoid riding the brakes at all costs (as I imagine the brake fluid would boil after some period of riding the brakes).  I successfully made it down from the highest point not snowed in without touching the brakes more than once in a long while, in a cheap Toyota, so I think automatics can do engine braking.

[DGuller]

What kind of racing are we talking about? Formula 1 pioneered the use of sequential transmission (semi-automatic) long ago.

I'm thinking of Formula 1, but probably because that's the only series with open enough rules (in the past) to even consider automatics.  There was a period about 20 years ago when driver aids were legalized again for a couple of years, and drivers typically opted for automatic mode of shifting (although some chose to stay manual for downshifts and only automate upshifts).

[Duque de Bragança]

What kind of racing are we talking about? Formula 1 pioneered the use of sequential transmission (semi-automatic) long ago.

I'm thinking of Formula 1, but probably because that's the only series with open enough rules (in the past) to even consider automatics.  There was a period about 20 years ago when driver aids were legalized again for a couple of years, and drivers typically opted for automatic mode of shifting (although some chose to stay manual for downshifts and only automate upshifts).

Not a Formula 1 watcher, so I have to rely on wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission

The first Formula One car to use a semi-automatic transmission was the 1989 Ferrari 640.[35][113] It used hydraulic actuators and electrical solenoids for clutch control and shifting, and was shifted via two paddles mounted behind the steering wheel. Another paddle on the steering wheel controlled the clutch, which was only needed when starting from a standstill.[114] The car won its debut race at the Brazilian Grand Prix, but for much of the season suffered from reliability problems.[115] Other teams began switching to similar semi-automatic transmissions; the 1991 Williams FW14 was the first to use a sequential drum-rotation mechanism (similar to those used in motorcycle transmissions), which allowed for a more compact design that required only one actuator to rotate the drum and change gears. A further development was made possible by the introduction of electronic throttle control soon after, which made it possible for the car to automatically rev-match during downshifts.[116] By 1993, most teams were using semi-automatic transmissions. The last F1 car fitted with a conventional manual gearbox, the Forti FG01, raced in 1995.[117]

Following concerns about the potential for Formula One cars to shift gears automatically without any driver input, mandatory software was introduced in 1994[118] that ensured that gear changes only occurred when instructed by the driver. Pre-programmed, computer-controlled, fully-automatic upshifts and downshifts were re-introduced and allowed from 2001, and were permitted from that year's Spanish Grand Prix, but were banned again in 2004.[119][120][121][122][123][124][125][126] Buttons on the steering wheel to shift directly to a particular gear (instead of having to shift sequentially using the paddles) are permitted.[citation needed] The 2005 Minardi PS05, Renault R25, and Williams FW27 were the last Formula 1 cars to use a 6-speed gearbox before the switch to a mandatory 7-speed gearbox for the 2006 season. Since 2014 season, Formula 1 cars currently use mandatory 8-speed paddle-shift gearboxes.

Semi-automatic transmission, i.e semi-manual seems a good compromise for the everyday driver.

[Tamas]

Yeah, I had an early version of semi-automatic in my 2004 Corolla in Hungary (MMT it was called). It was pretty neat. Once learned, I could VERY well regulate gear switches (the gearbox mechanism was identical to a manual, just a computer changing) with the gas pedal, and when the mood or necessity stroke, I could switch (haha) to switching manually up and down the gears.

[Grey Fox]

With the current climate crisis and emphasis on reducing fuel consumption a manual transmission is simply not a good deal. Also, CVTs are fuel efficiency game changer in consumer cars that have no torque needs.

[mongers]

I get what Josq is saying, I think it's largely down to what you learned on and first use, so many including him and me probably find automatics non-instinctive? You sometimes have to actively 'think' what you're doing with your feet as opposed to a complex but learned muscle memory?

I've driven plenty of autos for work, but only ever own manuals. 

[Barrister]

I don't care about cars. I see no status in them. Neither I nor my GF see driving a normal car as a macho thing.  Automatics are just harder to drive as they give you less control.

Automatics give you less control, true.

But that's what makes them easier to drive.  More control, more choices = more difficulty.

It's like Linux - you can have a crazy amount of  control over the operating system and your computer in general.  But that certainly doesn't make it easier to use - quite the opposite in fact.

[Tamas]

Yeah. Didn't the Ford Model T have 5 pedals? We have lost a lot of control since then. 

[Josquius]

So model t= Linux. Too much.
Automatic =mac. Too little.
Manual = windows. Just right :p

Do you get regular electric manuals I wonder or are they destined to doom?

[Duque de Bragança]

I get what Josq is saying, I think it's largely down to what you learned on and first use, so many including him and me probably find automatics non-instinctive? You sometimes have to actively 'think' what you're doing with your feet as opposed to a complex but learned muscle memory?

I've driven plenty of autos for work, but only ever own manuals. 

I understand though one's kilometrage may vary. 

When one discovered drving a with a 4-speed gearbox Ford Transit, having a 6 or 7-speed smaller car, with power steering does not feel as much driving. 

[Tamas]

Just try one for like an hour.

Besides, if the petrol engine is on its way out, manual transmission is also on its way out. Better learn it now than when you are 60.