What allies are supposed to do

[Zoupa]

I don't think my feelings have ever been hurt by discussing anything online 

Posting on an internet forum would be a weird past-time if it did.

Writing responses as if you're in the person's head is strange. Alliances don't last forever; IMO the last 20 years have shown NATO's limitations, plus you're the ones always harping on the Pacific the Pacific the Pacific. Focus on that then *shrug*

[The Minsky Moment]

This thread really reinforces NATO's obsolescence and the urgent need for European Defense. I guess Macron read the tea leaves earlier than I did.

European Defense is a great idea, if only you could get the Europeans to go for it.

The French idea is is a European system led by France; the UK idea is a European system where British influence is decisive; the small countries want a committee system; Italy wants to free ride; and the German idea is a European system led by Russia.

Hard to reconcile.

[Admiral Yi]

 

I'm all for handing European defense completely over to the Yuros.

[DGuller]

I'm all for handing European defense completely over to the Yuros.

I think that would go a long way towards truly uniting Europe, as part of Russia.

[Razgovory]

I had no idea that the purpose of NATO was to sell submarines.

[Zoupa]

I'm all for handing European defense completely over to the Yuros.

Handing it over? I wasn't aware the EU had delegated that task to the USA.

I think that would go a long way towards truly uniting Europe, as part of Russia.

A bit dramatic are we. It's been years and Russia hasn't even been able to hold eastern Ukraine. Somehow I think the EU can manage.

I had no idea that the purpose of NATO was to sell submarines.

Australia is in NATO?

[mongers]

Another classic Languish 'discussion'.

[Grey Fox]

This is so french.

[Berkut]

You have to hand it to Zoupa. He takes every French stereotype around international diplomacy and relationships and just cranks it right up to 11.

[viper37]

Wait, we are allied with France?  I didn't think France had allies, only interests.

That's the US   per Bill Clinton, during the Yougoslavia crisis, the 1st one.

That's why Switzerland cancelled its Rafale orders in favor of F-35 after a visit by Biden and some of his officials last summer.

[viper37]

It'll be pretty hilarious if it turns out it in fact was France in the end.

I'd certainly put France as my #2 suspect.  Toebbe doesn't sound like the brightest bulb in the chandelier, so may have thought France wouldn't turn him in.  Israel remains my #1, though.

they said the letters were written in foreing language, or bad english (can't remember which).  Isrealis speak perfect English.  Most French do not.

[viper37]

I'm all for handing European defense completely over to the Yuros.

Handing it over? I wasn't aware the EU had delegated that task to the USA.

C'mon.  Let's be serious here.  In the face of China and Russia, we all depend on the US firepower.  Having a bunch of F-16s and F-35 and all the assortment of US air power at the ready in Germany is detterent enough for Russia.

I think that would go a long way towards truly uniting Europe, as part of Russia.

A bit dramatic are we. It's been years and Russia hasn't even been able to hold eastern Ukraine. Somehow I think the EU can manage.[/quote]
Ukraine is united against Russia, with help from NATO, in the form of military equipment and training.

Europe would be divided.  The British would attack the French while the French invade Spain who would march on Catalonia while Italy is trying to regain a foothold in the Balkans.

No, seriously, I don't see Europe, as fragmented as it is, posing any kind of challenge to a serious military attack of any kind.

I had no idea that the purpose of NATO was to sell submarines.

Australia is in NATO?
[/quote]
it's a partner, but not a member-nation.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_48899.htm

[grumbler]

That's why Switzerland cancelled its Rafale orders in favor of F-35 after a visit by Biden and some of his officials last summer.

Switzerland had no order in for Rafale fighters.  Rafale was just one of the contenders.  French anger, such as it was, was because they thought Switzerland had made up their minds ahead of time, and the Rafale negotiations were thus a sham.

[Josquius]

Switzerland shouldn't be buying either of them anyway. The whole thing is ridiculous.

[HVC]

It'll be pretty hilarious if it turns out it in fact was France in the end.

I'd certainly put France as my #2 suspect.  Toebbe doesn't sound like the brightest bulb in the chandelier, so may have thought France wouldn't turn him in.  Israel remains my #1, though.

they said the letters were written in foreing language, or bad english (can't remember which).  Isrealis speak perfect English.  Most French do not.

Working with an Israeli company as a customer right now. I contest this statement