Aukus

[Berkut]

How in Gods name is CANADA mad at us over this?????

[PDH]

How in Gods name is CANADA mad at us over this?????

We went down to the Mall with the UK and Australia and the three of us smoked and wore eye shadow and talked about how we hate our parents.  Nobody called Canada and they had to stay at home listening to Bryan Adams CDs.

[HisMajestyBOB]

Canada has four subs that spend more time in dry dock then the water (thanks uk), and hasn't shown any interest in replacing them. Not sure what our part in a sub deal would be. As for general intelligence and tech, I thought we already have those treaties with the states.

Maybe Canada could have joined to instruct Australia on what not to do. 

[Grey Fox]

How in Gods name is CANADA mad at us over this?????

Not the outgoing government. Our analyst are butthurt & can't figure out while we were left out. Some think it's because we won't ban Huawei.

[Jacob]

How in Gods name is CANADA mad at us over this?????

CANADA is not mad. Trudeau is saying "it's about nuclear subs, we're not getting nuclear subs, so no biggie."

But some analysts (who may or may not be partisan, I don't know) are saying "it's a big deal we were left out" and some are saying "if Trudeau doesn't realize it's a big deal that means he's either misinformed or trying to put a good face on this big slight."

Personally I think it's not the biggest deal, and that we can get a seat at the table at such a time where it makes sense for us to want it... but I don't believe nuclear subs is a table we have expressed an interest in being at at this point.

CC, for his part, is obviously with the analysts that are saying it's a big deal but I'm not sure it represents the general outlook in Canada at this point.

[Jacob]

Basically, I think if Canada says "oh hey, yeah we're willing to commit however many billions of dollars to get some nuclear submarines" that we can join and/ or get a similar arrangement. But I don't think we're going to get access to everything unless we agree to spend some money.

Maybe there's a scenario where we can say "we don't want subs, but we're willing to spend however many hundreds of millions or billions to acquire some of the related tech for non-sub related military uses, can we play" and get a yes.

Personally at this point I can in fact see the case for Canada having nuclear subs... but I'm not sure the Canadian public would necessarily be on board with the costs. And I don't think the Liberals were particularly interested in making billion dollar subs an election issue either.

[Barrister]

Why would we want to be tying ourselves to those warmonger imperialists in the US any further than we already are?  We should be pursuing a more independent path in international relations in any event.

[Jacob]

Why would we want to be tying ourselves to those warmonger imperialists in the US any further than we already are?  We should be pursuing a more independent path in international relations in any event.

Do you have anything particular in mind?

[garbon]

Trolling is just as tiring in the 2020s.

[Josquius]

What would be the advantage of nuclear subs for Canada?
Surely the range of conventional ones is good enough for patrolling the Arctic?

[Syt]

https://www.dw.com/en/eu-unveils-indo-pacific-strategy-in-response-to-us-led-pact/a-59203426

EU unveils Indo-Pacific strategy in response to US-led pact

EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell has said the bloc was "not informed" about the "AUKUS" security pact in the Indo-Pacific and took it as a sign the EU needs to develop its own strategy for the region.

The European Union announced its own strategy to boost political and defense ties in the Indo-Pacific on Thursday.

It comes a day after the United States, UK and Australia unveiled a new tri-lateral defense pact for the region.

EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said Thursday that Brussels had not been consulted on the pact, which has been dubbed "AUKUS."

"We regret not having been informed, not having been part of these talks," Borrell said as he presented the strategy.

"We must survive on our own, as others do," he added.

A particular sore spot of the pact is a new deal for the US to help Australia build a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines. That canceled a previous $40-billion (€34-billion) diesel submarine deal with France, which drew the ire of Paris.

"I understand the extent to which the French government must be disappointed," Borrell said.

What will the plan entail?

The EU plan also includes "exploring ways to ensure enhanced naval deployments by EU Member States to help protect the sea lines of communication and freedom of navigation," a statement said.

Other areas the plan intends to address include building cooperation with countries in the region on trade, health, data, infrastructure, and the environment.

The new strategy could also beef up the EU diplomatic profile on issues important to the region, and increase the military presence of EU countries in the Indo-Pacific.

This could also involve deploying EU personnel and security presence to assist on international missions, including sailing EU-flagged ships on patrols in the South China Sea.

European Council chief Charles Michel wrote on Twitter Thursday that the "The AUKUS security partnership further demonstrates the need for a common EU approach in a region of strategic interest."

Michel added that the Indo Pacific plan would be further discussed by EU heads of state at the leaders' summit  in October.

Why is the Indo-Pacific important to the EU?

The Indo-Pacific is a region conceived as spanning India and China, Japan to Southeast Asia and past Australia into the Pacific.

The AUKUS alliance, and the EU announcement, come amid ongoing tensions between Western countries and China as Beijing increases the size of its navy and continues to build military outposts on man-made islands in the South China Sea.

Beijing claims most of the international waters in the sea as Chinese territory, which has caused concern over critical sea lanes that carry a sizeable portion of global trade each year.

"Given the importance of a meaningful European naval presence in the Indo-Pacific, the EU will explore ways to ensure enhanced naval deployments by its member states in the region," the statement said.

However, Borrell said Thursday that the EU plan was "one of cooperation, not confrontation" with China.

[Syt]

[Zanza]

https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/minister/peter-dutton/statements/inaugural-australia-france-22-ministerial-consultations

The French and Australian foreign and defence ministers met on August 30th and even specifically discussed the submarine topic, but it looks like the Australians did not say a word about this.
Sounds like big, but seemingly deliberate failure of Australian diplomacy. They reinforced their alliance with the US, but extremely pissed off France. The US can to a degree ignore the feelings of its allies as they are indispensable. Not sure if Australia is well served with pissing off their neighbour France. I guess their desired FTA with the EU is no longer on the agenda.

[garbon]

https://www.dw.com/en/eu-unveils-indo-pacific-strategy-in-response-to-us-led-pact/a-59203426

EU unveils Indo-Pacific strategy in response to US-led pact

EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell has said the bloc was "not informed" about the "AUKUS" security pact in the Indo-Pacific and took it as a sign the EU needs to develop its own strategy for the region.

The European Union announced its own strategy to boost political and defense ties in the Indo-Pacific on Thursday.

It comes a day after the United States, UK and Australia unveiled a new tri-lateral defense pact for the region.

EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said Thursday that Brussels had not been consulted on the pact, which has been dubbed "AUKUS."

"We regret not having been informed, not having been part of these talks," Borrell said as he presented the strategy.

"We must survive on our own, as others do," he added.

A particular sore spot of the pact is a new deal for the US to help Australia build a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines. That canceled a previous $40-billion (€34-billion) diesel submarine deal with France, which drew the ire of Paris.

"I understand the extent to which the French government must be disappointed," Borrell said.

What will the plan entail?

The EU plan also includes "exploring ways to ensure enhanced naval deployments by EU Member States to help protect the sea lines of communication and freedom of navigation," a statement said.

Other areas the plan intends to address include building cooperation with countries in the region on trade, health, data, infrastructure, and the environment.

The new strategy could also beef up the EU diplomatic profile on issues important to the region, and increase the military presence of EU countries in the Indo-Pacific.

This could also involve deploying EU personnel and security presence to assist on international missions, including sailing EU-flagged ships on patrols in the South China Sea.

European Council chief Charles Michel wrote on Twitter Thursday that the "The AUKUS security partnership further demonstrates the need for a common EU approach in a region of strategic interest."

Michel added that the Indo Pacific plan would be further discussed by EU heads of state at the leaders' summit  in October.

Why is the Indo-Pacific important to the EU?

The Indo-Pacific is a region conceived as spanning India and China, Japan to Southeast Asia and past Australia into the Pacific.

The AUKUS alliance, and the EU announcement, come amid ongoing tensions between Western countries and China as Beijing increases the size of its navy and continues to build military outposts on man-made islands in the South China Sea.

Beijing claims most of the international waters in the sea as Chinese territory, which has caused concern over critical sea lanes that carry a sizeable portion of global trade each year.

"Given the importance of a meaningful European naval presence in the Indo-Pacific, the EU will explore ways to ensure enhanced naval deployments by its member states in the region," the statement said.

However, Borrell said Thursday that the EU plan was "one of cooperation, not confrontation" with China.

So there currently is no EU strategy?

[The Brain]

The strategy is sending the Baltic fleet to sort things out.