Canada Election 2021

[crazy canuck]

Well since cc went all semantic, Merriam-Webster defines discriminatory as making or showing an unfair or prejudicial distinction between different categories of people or things.

Calling something discriminatory implies that the treatment is unfair and/or prejudicial. I don't think Bill 21 is unfair, fairness is subjective. As for prejudice, I don't see it either but then again I'm not a lawyer. If people want a particular job, they can remove their cross/kippah/hijab/pasta strainer during work hours. Is that really prejudicial?

Is it prejudicial?  Yes, it is.  I urge you to read the decision of the Quebec Superior Court which sets out why that is.

The people suggesting that the law is not discriminatory are the ones engaging in semantics.  The position justifying the discriminatory effect of the law is a lot more credible.

Can a law creating a rule to stop people from doing something they can stop at any moment inherently discriminatory?

Yes, a Black person can stop wanting to ride in the front of the bus and a law requiring them to ride in the back is discriminatory.  As terrible as that is, the law in Quebec goes further.  People who wear a Turban (Sikhs) or a Hijab (Muslim women) cannot even get on the metaphorical bus.


 

[Oexmelin]

Let's not get carried away. The color of one's skin doesn't seem that comparable to a piece of clothing - and not all government jobs are concerned by Bill 21, but the authority-yielding ones - teachers, judges, commissioners.

[crazy canuck]

Let's not get carried away. The color of one's skin doesn't seem that comparable to a piece of clothing - and not all government jobs are concerned by Bill 21, but the authority-yielding ones - teachers, judges, commissioners.

The law expects people to abandon their religious beliefs to work. The analogy is apt. 

[Barrister]

Let's not get carried away. The color of one's skin doesn't seem that comparable to a piece of clothing - and not all government jobs are concerned by Bill 21, but the authority-yielding ones - teachers, judges, commissioners.

It's not just a piece of clothing - it's a piece of clothing required by certain religions.

Here's section 15 of the Charter:

15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

Since both race/ethnic origin, and religion, are both mentioned, the comparison feels apt.

And religion is perhaps even more protected since section 2 states:

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

a. freedom of conscience and religion;

Look, if you want to argue why this particular form of discrimination is required you're free to do so.  Canada is not an absolute on such questions - the Charter is limited by both section 1 (rights may be limited as can be justified in a free and democratic society) and section 33 (notwithstanding clause).  But it's still discrimination.

[Jacob]

The Conservative momentum has stalled out and reversed a bit, and the Liberals now seem to have a slight lead (which given how the votes are distributed means it's likely they'll win the largest number of seats).

Singh's current message: Trudeau means well, sure, but he is ineffectual. We will push harder to make life better for Canadians.

O'Toole's current message: We've laid out a serious plan that's better for Canada. Also Trudeau is a putz and should be punished for selfishly calling this election that nobody wants.

Trudeau's current message: The Conservatives will take us backwards, just look at them being insubstantial on vaccines. The NDP isn't really serious.

Early voting closed yesterday. Six days to go.

[Barrister]

I really think that Bernier's PPC is going to fuck this up for the Conservatives.

The PPC was a non-factor in 2019, and was a non-factor at the start of this campaign.  But they saw an opening for being anti-vax mandate, anti-vax passport that no other party was appealing to, and they're now getting 5-9% in the most recent polls.  As I always warn you can't simply say that 5-9% would automatically go to the Conservatives, but it does appear that some 60% of their support is coming from those who voted Conservative in 2019.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/erin-otoole-maxime-bernier-peoples-party-1.6174014

Still very unlikely the PPC elects any candidates so they're playing the ultimate spoiler, but that appears to be what is happening.

[Jacob]

I know that the Conservative Party's platform is not anti-vax, but I do wonder to what degree the current situation in Alberta and obnoxious anti-vax loons targeting Trudeau is influencing public perception.

I haven't - contrary to what Neil suggested - seen much overt effort to saddle the CCP with that, but when looking for explanations for the reason slow-down and slide in CCP poll numbers I wonder if that may be the explanation?

[Jacob]

I really think that Bernier's PPC is going to fuck this up for the Conservatives.

The PPC was a non-factor in 2019, and was a non-factor at the start of this campaign.  But they saw an opening for being anti-vax mandate, anti-vax passport that no other party was appealing to, and they're now getting 5-9% in the most recent polls.  As I always warn you can't simply say that 5-9% would automatically go to the Conservatives, but it does appear that some 60% of their support is coming from those who voted Conservative in 2019.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/erin-otoole-maxime-bernier-peoples-party-1.6174014

Still very unlikely the PPC elects any candidates so they're playing the ultimate spoiler, but that appears to be what is happening.

Yeah, that makes sense. I wonder whether the PPC will stick around in future elections when - presumably (hopefully) - anti-vax is not an issue anymore....

[crazy canuck]

I think the Conservative numbers would have been stable but for the PPC.   Jacob, the issues you were talking about would have given people who were choosing between the NDP and Liberals another reason not to vote Conservative - so that should not have brought the Conservative numbers down. 

The thing I think hurting O'Toole's numbers the most is summed up in the Globe and Mail piece from last week saying he is the most liberal leader the Conservatives have had.  The author of the piece meant it as a compliment regarding O'Toole's reading the mood of the public.  But I don't think dyed in the wool Conservatives necessarily see it that way.

[Jacob]

I think the Conservative numbers would have been stable but for the PPC.   Jacob, the issues you were talking about would have given people who were choosing between the NDP and Liberals another reason not to vote Conservative - so that should not have brought the Conservative numbers down.

I was thinking that there might be people on the edge of voting Conservative - who might not like Trudeau etc - who's more put off by anti-vax shenanigans than Trudeau. But maybe that's a tiny demographic.

The thing I think hurting O'Toole's numbers the most is summed up in the Globe and Mail piece from last week saying he is the most liberal leader the Conservatives have had.  The author of the piece meant it as a compliment regarding O'Toole's reading the mood of the public.  But I don't think dyed in the wool Conservatives necessarily see it that way.

Yeah that makes sense. The PPC numbers seem to bear that out. But conversely, if O'Toole attempted to rein PPC supporters back into the fold, how much would he lose from his centre-right and centre voters?

[Grey Fox]

O'Toole and the Conservative party have, apparently, sent a letter to Premier Legault saying that while they will scrap the Liberal child care plan, they will negotiate to keep Quebec's money on the table.

Sorry, RoC. No affordable Child care for you.

[crazy canuck]

The people who might be thinking about maybe voting conservative would not have shown up in the polling numbers as supporters.  Their support has dropped because Conservative supporters are going elsewhere and likely mostly to the PPC.  Incidentally someone tried to create the PPs in BC back with the Socreds collapsed - the Pacific Party.  But when someone pointed out they would be known as the pee pees, the idea lost lustre.

The numbers show O'Toole is not having a great deal of success attracting people beyond the core Conservative vote - hence his declining numbers.  It was just too late for him to try to pitch himself as something other than the usual Conservative especially when he pitched himself as a right wing Conservative at their leadership contest.  Not to mention he leads of party that is very much influenced by social conservatives.  It is the balancing act everyone Conservative leader has who tries to pull the party toward policies more acceptable to Canadians - they always risk the hard right breaking off like the Reformers did back in the day.   The Canadian Conservative party is a lot like the UK Labour party - they can't seem to keep their eyes on what it will take to actually govern the country for more than a limited period of time.

[crazy canuck]

O'Toole and the Conservative party have, apparently, sent a letter to Premier Legault saying that while they will scrap the Liberal child care plan, they will negotiate to keep Quebec's money on the table.

Sorry, RoC. No affordable Child care for you.

Once again it is valuable to know what he is saying to Quebec.

[Jacob]

O'Toole and the Conservative party have, apparently, sent a letter to Premier Legault saying that while they will scrap the Liberal child care plan, they will negotiate to keep Quebec's money on the table.

Sorry, RoC. No affordable Child care for you.

... if the Conservatives win. But we know that. We'll be getting an anemic tax credit plan instead.

[crazy canuck]

O'Toole and the Conservative party have, apparently, sent a letter to Premier Legault saying that while they will scrap the Liberal child care plan, they will negotiate to keep Quebec's money on the table.

Sorry, RoC. No affordable Child care for you.

... if the Conservatives win. But we know that. We'll be getting an anemic tax credit plan instead.

If a majority yes.  But that is not likely.  If a minority it will all depend on whether they can stand with only the Bloc supporting them.  That would be a truly terrifying result.  Shovel as much money as necessary to Quebec to keep the Bloc support and then provide the rest of the country with (I like your word) anemic policies.