Has Biden Made the Right Choice in Afghanistan?

[The Brain]

It wasn't Sweden's longest war. 

[garbon]

In broadstrokes, I agree with Owen Jones on something. Am I the baddie?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/19/afghanistan-crisis-britain-foreign-policy-delusional

Even the crisis in Afghanistan can't break the spell of Britain's delusional foreign policy

As MPs lamented the unfolding disaster in parliament, they showed no sign of learning from it

If historians of the future wish to understand the ignorance and hubris that accompanied the decline of the west's power, this week's emergency parliamentary debate on Afghanistan will provide an insightful case study. The delusions that have long characterised British foreign policy remained intact when Iraq was destroyed for the sake of nonexistent weapons of mass destruction; when British soldiers were forced into a humiliating retreat from Iraq's southern city of Basra at the hands of Iranian-backed Shia militias; and when Libya was left as a failed state. It seemed unlikely that the Taliban casually waltzing into Kabul would finally break the spell.

Take the much celebrated contribution from Theresa May, who asked, "Where is global Britain on the streets of Kabul?" and rued the repercussions of Britain depending "on a unilateral decision taken by the United States". The former prime minister is a fantasist: Britain has not had a foreign policy independent of the United States since the 1950s, and indefinite occupation of Afghanistan, which has been proposed as an alternative to withdrawal, effectively means transforming the country into a colony.
...

[Sheilbh]

In broadstrokes, I agree with Owen Jones on something. Am I the baddie?

Yeah I sort of agree, but with Jones it needs to be in broadstrokes and I need to be kind of squinting. It also helps if you don't see his social media because I'm really not sure this is quite the right take

I see it's "let's rehabilitate Theresa May, architect of Windrush" time again!

What's it for this time?

*spins wheel*

Assailing Boris Johnson for not unilaterally turning Afghanistan into a British colony.

Cooooooooool! You're all completely normal rational human beings!

Interesting that apparently the countries who were trying to push against withdrawal most strongly at one of the NATO or G7 meetings before this happened were Italy and the UK.

There is also a report in the Times that the UK wasn't part of the discussions between the US and Taliban (which is fine and to be expected) but also weren't updated/informed by the US about their withdrawal plans or the proposed pace of withdrawal which I think is bad. If that goes for the rest of NATO I think it goes some way to explaining why European countries appear to have been caught on the hop - they were actually caught on the hop/surprised.

It feels like that could be right, it certainly hasn't felt like a coordinated NATO withdrawal but rather the US getting out ASAP and everyone following and everyone having to make their own urgent plans. But it is disappointing and surprising from Biden - especially given that this is withdrawal from the only Article 5 mission in NATO's history.

[garbon]

Yeah, I did only copy the start of his opinion piece as felt it then devolved from there.

[Legbiter]

[Valmy]

I say the Orioles suck because when they play baseball they lose most of their games...You can counter that it is unfair to judge them in baseball because they'd make a killer water polo squad, but I prefer to judge them by their ability to accomplish the tasks they are actually undertaking.

Speaking of which my beloved Orioles lost their 15th straight yesterday. We are just a few losses away from history making ineptitude. 6 losses to the club record of 21!

[mongers]

Telling that the airport in Kabul that so many are trying to escape through is officially named the 'Hamid Karzai International Airport' - someone who led one of the most corrupt governments in the world.

I think if it had been named 'Ahmad Shah Massoud International Airport' it would have been a sign of a less bleak future for a democratic Afghanistan.


In related news Russian govt sources have stated that the Panjshir valley is becoming the centre of resistance to the Taliban. 

[11B4V]

Good we should start funding them.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I don't see it becoming a national movement, but things are definitely heating up.

Massoud's National Resistance Front (technically backing former vice president Amrullah Saleh) is looking to be getting fairly entrenched in the Panshir Valley.

Meanwhile apparently in Baghlan province, locals had came to an agreement: the Taliban can rule, but they may not enter villages or homes. Over the last couple of days Taliban forces started doing just that, house to house searches. Shortly after a former military prison commandant apparently organized several hundred villagers with small arms, they killed 30 of the Taliban and took 20 captive. The Taliban is promising a reprisal. This shows some of the difficulty with governing Afghanistan. The Afghans have a very different definition of "governing" than most people. To them governing means they vaguely acknowledge you are the boss. But when you try to enter into their affairs, there is trouble.

There are increasing rumblings related to the Hazara Shiite minority arming up as well.

[Syt]

New Yorker cover: "Exit Strategy"

[11B4V]

 

[Malthus]

The leader in the Economist is pretty scathing.

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2021/08/21/the-fiasco-in-afghanistan-is-a-grave-blow-to-americas-standing

[11B4V]

The leader in the Economist is pretty scathing.

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2021/08/21/the-fiasco-in-afghanistan-is-a-grave-blow-to-americas-standing

Who cares. He can fuck off.

[ulmont]

The leader in the Economist is pretty scathing.

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2021/08/21/the-fiasco-in-afghanistan-is-a-grave-blow-to-americas-standing

Consistent media warmongering is utter bullshit.

Biden has gotten more bad press over a week of messy-but-successful-so-far evacuations than Obama and Trump combined got across 12 years of Americans actually dying in pursuit of a failed policy.

Frightening political implications.

https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1428791771023163396

[Razgovory]

My mom is very angry that the press is attacking Biden over this.  I have absolute no problem it.  I'm not interested in another personality cult.  If Biden's decision was wrong, then it's fine to attack him over it.  I think it was the correct decision, but I'm open to arguments that it isn't.  Who knows what it will look like 5, 10 years down the line.


I'm just tired of goddamn war.