Refractory Gauls, or the French politics thread

[Crazy_Ivan80]

the islamo-leftist turn was tried in 2010 by a small trot party LCR/NPA. The result was a huge internal crisis and mockery from the left and right reminding them of Religion being the Opium of the People. 

who's laughing now though, given the metastasizing of islamo-gauchism...

[Duque de Bragança]

the islamo-leftist turn was tried in 2010 by a small trot party LCR/NPA. The result was a huge internal crisis and mockery from the left and right reminding them of Religion being the Opium of the People. 

who's laughing now though, given the metastasizing of islamo-gauchism...

Not the trots in question, they are even more irrelevant.

Context:

What is Islamo-leftism? Like we should embrace traditional religion but in communes with centrally planned economics?

It's the 21st century version of Judeo-Bolshevism

It's like anti-racism is the new anti-fascism I guess, a perfect tool to use useful idiots.

Valmy and Sheilbh asked for a definition of islamo-leftism/gauchisme. That was quite a gauche move. 

[chipwich]

Why is that sad news? Did you have big hopes attached to the future of Communism? Or is this some sentimental thing?

Nobody actually cared for the Barnum-Baily circus but it was vaguely sad when it closed

[Duque de Bragança]

Why is that sad news? Did you have big hopes attached to the future of Communism? Or is this some sentimental thing?

Nobody actually cared for  the Barnum-Baily circus  but it was vaguely  sad when it closed

Now, now... That's mean for the Barnum-Baily circus.

[Valmy]

Why is that sad news? Did you have big hopes attached to the future of Communism? Or is this some sentimental thing?

Nobody actually cared for the Barnum-Baily circus but it was vaguely sad when it closed

That was what I meant by the sentimental thing. Sure I hated the old Southern Democrats/Dixiecrats but it was vaguely sad when the last few became Republicans back in the 2000s.

[viper37]

Lepen Sr says the RN has to man up and the party's gone tits up since it changed its name (formerly Front National).
Can't fight any links in English, sorry.

Lien en français

(Paris) Jean-Marie Le Pen a souhaité mercredi que son ancien parti le Rassemblement national, présidé par sa fille Marine Le Pen et qui tient son congrès samedi et dimanche, retrouve sa « virilité », ou bien ce sera sa « disparition ».

« Aujourd'hui, ou Marine Le Pen revient aux fondamentaux, qui ne consiste pas seulement à les énoncer mais à les faire vivre, sur l'immigration, l'insécurité », avec « une reprise de la virilité, de la netteté des positions », ou bien ce sera sa « disparition », a déclaré celui qui a dirigé pendant près de 40 ans le FN, dans son Journal de bord vidéo diffusé mercredi.

« Ou bien Marine Le Pen retrouve les accents des combats précédents ou bien elle va progressivement s'effacer », a ajouté le co-fondateur du FN. Il estime que ce parti n'a « de chances de succès que sous une forme alternative au système ».

Au congrès du RN qui se tient samedi et dimanche à Perpignan, la cheffe du RN a « une obligation, de préciser ses positions et de revenir aux positions qui avaient fait la force et l'espérance de croissance du FN », a insisté Jean-Marie Le Pen.

Pour lui, « le congrès devrait être le moyen d'afficher un redressement politique, intellectuel, moral ».

L'ancien patron du FN a redit que la « délepénisation » du parti duquel il a été exclu en 2015 avait été « une faute politique » qui s'est « traduite par un échec électoral » aux régionales « et peut-être des échecs électoraux (à venir) si cette position était maintenue ».

M. Le Pen attribue aussi ce revers électoral au changement de nom, « qui était déjà une forme de recul ».

« La politique d'adaptation, de rapprochement du mouvement par rapport au pouvoir, à la droite ordinaire même, a été sanctionnée sévèrement » par les électeurs, selon lui.

Lady Marine wants to soften the image of the party, make it more palatable to the electorate and hopefully gain votes in the presidential elections to at least reach the 2nd turn.
Sir Jean-Marie wants his party to go back to its openly crypto-fascist roots while insisting they're not fascists.

At least, it's the way I understand this...

[Duque de Bragança]

Nah, RN with Marine sweetening the party image is not manly enough, says Le Pen père. 

Family feud goes on. 

"openly crypto" (sic) Nice oxymoron! 

As for the so-called fascist roots, FN roots are the Algerian War and OAS, not Vichy. Even for Le Pen père.

[viper37]

As for the so-called fascist roots, FN roots are the Algerian War and OAS, not Vichy. Even for Le Pen père.

Le Pen directed the 1965 presidential campaign of far-right candidate Jean-Louis Tixier-Vignancour, who obtained 5.19% of the votes. He insisted on the rehabilitation of the Collaborationists, declaring that:

    Was General de Gaulle more brave than Marshal Pétain in the occupied zone? This isn't sure. It was much easier to resist in London than to resist in France.

In 1962, Le Pen lost his seat in the Assembly. He created the Serp (Société d'études et de relations publiques) firm, a company involved in the music industry, which specialized in historical recordings and sold recordings of the choir of the CGT trade-union and songs of the Popular Front, as well as Nazi marches.

Seems he was a fan to me.  too young to have collaborate with the Nazis, but certainly looks to be a fan of them.  And tried to join the commies at the end of WWII.  Enough to put on the bad side of history, says me.

[Valmy]

As for the so-called fascist roots, FN roots are the Algerian War and OAS, not Vichy. Even for Le Pen père.

I find it so weird how openly hostile you are to every mainstream party in France but if it some kind of anti-Democratic reactionary group or the Communists suddenly you get all sentimental and defensive

After all you have said about Macron and company why must we be so moderate and careful to hedge towards the FN? That seems weird.

[Duque de Bragança]

As for the so-called fascist roots, FN roots are the Algerian War and OAS, not Vichy. Even for Le Pen père.

I find it so weird how openly hostile you are to every mainstream party in France but if it some kind of anti-Democratic reactionary group or the Communists suddenly you get all sentimental and defensive

After all you have said about Macron and company why must we be so moderate and careful to hedge towards the FN? That seems weird.

Hostile to every mainstream party is not the same as being "hostile" to Jupin and his clique. As for anti-democratic and demagogue, Jupin is pretty good at it as well, not just the RN or Mélenchon.
Not to mention diabolising FN does not work, and one of the lackeys of your Maquereau boy found Marine too soft. Darmanin, interior minister.
RN being described as anti-immigration or even reactionary (less than Al-Quran thumpers but that's another matter) is fine by me. I just see no factual evidence to call them fascists.

For instance, some temporary anti-terrorist laws are now permanent, without being specially effective against those they targeted.

PS: I thought the OAS connection would be damning enough, yet proved.

[The Minsky Moment]

As for the so-called fascist roots, FN roots are the Algerian War and OAS, not Vichy. Even for Le Pen père.

You are underplaying the connection with Action Francaise and the general role of the FN as a political home for all strands of the French far right.

[Duque de Bragança]

As for the so-called fascist roots, FN roots are the Algerian War and OAS, not Vichy. Even for Le Pen père.

You are underplaying the connection with Action Francaise and the general role of the FN as a political home for all strands of the French far right.

OAS is way more important. By the late Algerian War, OAS was far more than a bunch of old Action Française, which itself was not fascist. OAS recruitement was very diverse, with people from the left and right radicalising due to the withdrawal from Algeria decided by de Gaulle.
De Gaulle also had a connection with the Action Française in his youth years, Mitterrand as well. Maurras was a huge intellectual figure, who since he was right became mad. I'll let you find the author of the quote.
He also should have avoided de facto collaboration by siding with Pétain, specially since Maurras was quite the anti-German. If you want to have a look at what Maurrasism applied would have looked, it's Salazar. Certainly authoritarian, but not totalitarian.
I don't see Marine going this road and Le Pen père? I'm not sure he was structured intellectually and ideologically to apply had he been elected. He has been a troll for his whole career, except perhaps for his poujadiste past, where he was merely ultra-conservative. Then he argued that Islam was perfectly compatible with France, as he wanted to keep French Algeria.

Weren't it for Mitterand using him as a proxy to divide the right, in order to create a diversion for his failure at a socialiste program, he would have stayed at very low levels. Le Pen was not a problem in Giscard's time.

Do you really think for Jordan Barella, young RN IdF candidate or Marine Le Pen, the royalist Action Française matters that much nowadays?

[Duque de Bragança]

As for the so-called fascist roots, FN roots are the Algerian War and OAS, not Vichy. Even for Le Pen père.

Le Pen directed the 1965 presidential campaign of far-right candidate Jean-Louis Tixier-Vignancour, who obtained 5.19% of the votes. He insisted on the rehabilitation of the Collaborationists, declaring that:

    Was General de Gaulle more brave than Marshal Pétain in the occupied zone? This isn't sure. It was much easier to resist in London than to resist in France.

In 1962, Le Pen lost his seat in the Assembly. He created the Serp (Société d'études et de relations publiques) firm, a company involved in the music industry, which specialized in historical recordings and sold recordings of the choir of the CGT trade-union and songs of the Popular Front, as well as Nazi marches.

Seems he was a fan to me.  too young to have collaborate with the Nazis, but certainly looks to be a fan of them.  And tried to join the commies at the end of WWII.  Enough to put on the bad side of history, says me.

Le Pen was also tempted to desert to Israel during the Suez expedition, impressed by the successes of zionism, with the kibbutz and citizen-army. Remember, until 1967 and De Gaulle in France, Israel was very popular both in the right and left.

I guess for this business attempt at selling records, he was more of an opportunist, à la Macron. Actually, Macron adapted one of Le Pen's early mottos: Ni Droite, ni gauche, Français. Macron remixed it as Ni Droite, ni Gauche. 

Le Pen was also quite the free-marketeer in the '80s, claiming his admiration for the reforms of Reagan and Thatcher (Tyr will love that). A huge change from the first economic program of the FN.

If you want one politician who started on the extreme-right, demonstrating against "l'invasion des métèques", being pro-Maréchal Pétain during Vichy, switching sides only after Kursk, just to be sure, try Mitterand, who also was pro French Algeria but changed later on, unlike Le Pen.

Well, I don't think Le Pen wants Algeria to be French now, that would be bad for the party of his daughter. 

[Josquius]

So any chance of somebody not macron or the fascist?

[Sheilbh]

Xavier Bertrand is looking good  - rising in the polls and if I were on the French right I'd be looking at him closely. I think he's up to about 18% in the polls now.

The left: fragmented. Melenchon's polling at about 10%, while PS candidates are around the 5-10% region, as are the Greens.