Refractory Gauls, or the French politics thread

[Syt]

Marine Le Pen barred from running for public office for five years


France's Marine Le Pen has been barred from running for office for five years after being found guilty of misappropriating European funds to finance her far-right National Rally (RN) party.

The momentous decision means Le Pen will likely not be able to stand in the 2027 French presidential election. It would have been her fourth attempt, and the one offering the greatest chance of victory.

Judges imposed immediate ineligibility with her conviction, meaning the ban on holding public office will now come into effect even if Le Pen appeals.

She has also been given a four-year prison sentence, of which two will be suspended. The other two can be spent with an electronic tag rather than in custody.

Le Pen has also been given a €100,000 (£82,635) fine.

She will very likely appeal the jail sentence, so it will not apply now.

Gives her time to write a book, maybe? Working title, "Mon Combat"?

[Zoupa]

These reactions from politicians are pretty disgusting. It's like they all fear they could suffer the same fate.

You have to restore confidence in institutions. She broke the law, she's getting punished for it, same as everyone else. That should be the message.

[PJL]

These reactions from politicians are pretty disgusting. It's like they all fear they could suffer the same fate.

You have to restore confidence in institutions. She broke the law, she's getting punished for it, same as everyone else. That should be the message.

These reactions from politicians are pretty disgusting. It's like they all fear they could suffer the same fate.

You have to restore confidence in institutions. She broke the law, she's getting punished for it, same as everyone else. That should be the message.

Disagree, people care more about individuals than institutions, so the message will be counter-productive. I agree with others that at the very least this is a risky move.

[Duque de Bragança]

These reactions from politicians are pretty disgusting. It's like they all fear they could suffer the same fate.

You have to restore confidence in institutions. She broke the law, she's getting punished for it, same as everyone else. That should be the message.

These reactions from politicians are pretty disgusting. It's like they all fear they could suffer the same fate.

You have to restore confidence in institutions. She broke the law, she's getting punished for it, same as everyone else. That should be the message.

Disagree, people care more about individuals than institutions, so the message will be counter-productive. I agree with others that at the very least this is a risky move.

Bayrou is indeed is in a comparable predicament as Marine, as a matter of fact.

Since Sarkozy overspent in his unsuccessful 2012 campaign, political parties have had trouble getting financed, namely by loans from banks. Made some of them (even) more vulnerable to foreign money.

[Duque de Bragança]

Marine Le Pen barred from running for public office for five years


France's Marine Le Pen has been barred from running for office for five years after being found guilty of misappropriating European funds to finance her far-right National Rally (RN) party.

The momentous decision means Le Pen will likely not be able to stand in the 2027 French presidential election. It would have been her fourth attempt, and the one offering the greatest chance of victory.

Judges imposed immediate ineligibility with her conviction, meaning the ban on holding public office will now come into effect even if Le Pen appeals.

She has also been given a four-year prison sentence, of which two will be suspended. The other two can be spent with an electronic tag rather than in custody.

Le Pen has also been given a €100,000 (£82,635) fine.

She will very likely appeal the jail sentence, so it will not apply now.

Gives her time to write a book, maybe? Working title, "Mon Combat"?

Nah, too Germanic. Needs something more Latin.  Jail time is not even necessary to write it. 

[Grey Fox]

Comment gagné

[Crazy_Ivan80]

These reactions from politicians are pretty disgusting. It's like they all fear they could suffer the same fate.

You have to restore confidence in institutions. She broke the law, she's getting punished for it, same as everyone else. That should be the message.

These reactions from politicians are pretty disgusting. It's like they all fear they could suffer the same fate.

You have to restore confidence in institutions. She broke the law, she's getting punished for it, same as everyone else. That should be the message.

Disagree, people care more about individuals than institutions, so the message will be counter-productive. I agree with others that at the very least this is a risky move.

Bayrou is indeed is in a comparable predicament as Marine, as a matter of fact.

Since Sarkozy overspent in his unsuccessful 2012 campaign, political parties have had trouble getting financed, namely by loans from banks. Made some of them (even) more vulnerable to foreign money.

the belgian system is far from perfect (no surprise there) but financing of the political parties as taken care of by the state, based on the amount of votes they get and assuming they've got elected people in the relevant bodies. Again, not perfect, but there's no excuse to accept financing from dubious sources.

[Duque de Bragança]

These reactions from politicians are pretty disgusting. It's like they all fear they could suffer the same fate.

You have to restore confidence in institutions. She broke the law, she's getting punished for it, same as everyone else. That should be the message.

These reactions from politicians are pretty disgusting. It's like they all fear they could suffer the same fate.

You have to restore confidence in institutions. She broke the law, she's getting punished for it, same as everyone else. That should be the message.

Disagree, people care more about individuals than institutions, so the message will be counter-productive. I agree with others that at the very least this is a risky move.

Bayrou is indeed is in a comparable predicament as Marine, as a matter of fact.

Since Sarkozy overspent in his unsuccessful 2012 campaign, political parties have had trouble getting financed, namely by loans from banks. Made some of them (even) more vulnerable to foreign money.

the belgian system is far from perfect (no surprise there) but financing of the political parties as taken care of by the state, based on the amount of votes they get and assuming they've got elected people in the relevant bodies. Again, not perfect, but there's no excuse to accept financing from dubious sources.

That was the case in France too, but somewhat more difficult for minor parties, needed a certain amont of votes (not really a problem for the RN recently) and overspending was not taken care of by the State.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

These reactions from politicians are pretty disgusting. It's like they all fear they could suffer the same fate.

You have to restore confidence in institutions. She broke the law, she's getting punished for it, same as everyone else. That should be the message.

These reactions from politicians are pretty disgusting. It's like they all fear they could suffer the same fate.

You have to restore confidence in institutions. She broke the law, she's getting punished for it, same as everyone else. That should be the message.

Disagree, people care more about individuals than institutions, so the message will be counter-productive. I agree with others that at the very least this is a risky move.

Bayrou is indeed is in a comparable predicament as Marine, as a matter of fact.

Since Sarkozy overspent in his unsuccessful 2012 campaign, political parties have had trouble getting financed, namely by loans from banks. Made some of them (even) more vulnerable to foreign money.

the belgian system is far from perfect (no surprise there) but financing of the political parties as taken care of by the state, based on the amount of votes they get and assuming they've got elected people in the relevant bodies. Again, not perfect, but there's no excuse to accept financing from dubious sources.

That was the case in France too, but somewhat more difficult for minor parties, needed a certain amont of votes (not really a problem for the RN recently) and overspending was not taken care of by the State.

Small and new parties have issues in our system too but the amount you're allowed to spend is restricted by law. that said: the system is not without problems and each election cycle there's discussion on reform or replacement. Without result so far because the alternatives have their own issues

[viper37]

These reactions from politicians are pretty disgusting. It's like they all fear they could suffer the same fate.

You have to restore confidence in institutions. She broke the law, she's getting punished for it, same as everyone else. That should be the message.

As always, you can trust Marine to speak with integrity on this subject:

[HisMajestyBOB]

Marine Le Pen barred from running for public office for five years


France's Marine Le Pen has been barred from running for office for five years after being found guilty of misappropriating European funds to finance her far-right National Rally (RN) party.

The momentous decision means Le Pen will likely not be able to stand in the 2027 French presidential election. It would have been her fourth attempt, and the one offering the greatest chance of victory.

Judges imposed immediate ineligibility with her conviction, meaning the ban on holding public office will now come into effect even if Le Pen appeals.

She has also been given a four-year prison sentence, of which two will be suspended. The other two can be spent with an electronic tag rather than in custody.

Le Pen has also been given a €100,000 (£82,635) fine.

She will very likely appeal the jail sentence, so it will not apply now.

Great news!

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I'm broadly on Zoups side. There is form in France - Juppe, Sarko, Fillon, Chirac (I am noticing a pattern, but that may just be the ones I personally remember). For some the actual trials only came at the end of their careers but for others, especially Fillon, in their pomp.

And I think in all cases it did hurt them. So there's possibly a bit of "too clever by half" going on about how often French politicians are prosecuted and also the impact.

From everything I've read it seems very much that Le Pen and the RN deputies committed the crime. The sentencing maybe feels a little strong (especially the ineligibility applying immediately - I believe in the other cases that was always suspended/postponed).

I am a little bit more uncomfortable with the ineligibility - but I'm generally opposed to that being a legal sentence more broadly. I think it's slightly difficult to distinguish Imamoglu, Georgescu, Le Pen and even Trump (though I'm more comfortable with that type of political judgement lying within the political realm - the Senate). I think the judicialisation and legalisation of politics is a really worrying, negative trend - but it's not exactly new in France (or for that matter the US or Italy). Given that trend we should possibly worry about how it gets used/turned against others by Republicans in the US and Meloni in Italy and, if they win, the RN in France.

I'm not sure this will be politically effective (although the RN may have an almighty fight over what to do/who to back) - but that's not for the courts to ask. I wouldn't really celebrate this because I think politically (which, in my view, matters more) it may well fail and generally I think it is part of a really negative trend.

But it seems perverse to me that you have a system that can, and has, prosecuted and convicted multiple leading politicians of the centre right but apparently should draw a legal cordon sanitaire once you get to the far right. To an extent this is within the norms of French politics and I don't really think is anything special/noteworthy.

[dist]

To Sheilbh, I'm adding the translation of a comment left on the subject by a poster of the French equivalent of Languish. Maybe that can assuage your doubts/concerns.

There is one (or several) detail(s) that Marine has conveniently forgotten. In particular, the fact that the automatic ineligibility accompanying the embezzlement of public funds was added by the deputies themselves—because before that, judges rarely applied ineligibility, considering that it was not their concern, given the separation of powers and all that--a vote in which the two RN deputies courageously abstained.

Hot take: I think that's a good thing, that politicians are automatically ineligible if they embezzle public funds. And in this case, she is clearly guilty.

[viper37]

But it seems perverse to me that you have a system that can, and has, prosecuted and convicted multiple leading politicians of the centre right but apparently should draw a legal cordon sanitaire once you get to the far right. To an extent this is within the norms of French politics and I don't really think is anything special/noteworthy.

They did prosecute multiple politicians on the left in the past.
The list is shorter on the English page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_France
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_de_scandales_politiques_fran%C3%A7ais

[Sheilbh]

They did prosecute multiple politicians on the left in the past.
The list is shorter on the English page:

Oh, for sure.

For me, the one that sprang to mind from the left was Bernard Tapie - but I'm aware that's wildly out of date

To Sheilbh, I'm adding the translation of a comment left on the subject by a poster of the French equivalent of Languish. Maybe that can assuage your doubts/concerns.
[...]
Hot take: I think that's a good thing, that politicians are automatically ineligible if they embezzle public funds. And in this case, she is clearly guilty.

So as I say, I generally disagree on people being disqualified from running for office. My basic view is if you can vote you should be able to run for office and I really dislike the language around "felons" even if it's come in via Trump. Flipside is, that I support recall petitions and a health culture of resignation/shame. Basically I think ineligibility narrows the power of the people by restricting who they can vote for, recall expands it by letting them vote them out early.

But on this - and I think it's a peripheral issue - isn't the technical argument that the law passed by legislators came after this crimes. So from what I've read I thought there was discretion for the court and this was requested by the prosecutor not automatic, is that not right?