A Question

[Malthus]

Are there any wargames (computer or board) that model the Persian wars, as described in Herodotus?

[Ed Anger]

Are there any wargames (computer or board) that model the Persian wars, as described in Herodotus?

Spartan w/ Gates of Troy expansion, Sorta. I find the game easy and about as historical as a Tim map.

[The Brain]

Are there any wargames (computer or board) that model the Persian wars, as described in Herodotus?

They grow up so fast, don't they?

[Viking]

Are there any wargames (computer or board) that model the Persian wars, as described in Herodotus?

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1033

[The Minsky Moment]

There is a Salamis game, IIRC.

It is kind of an under-represented period.  I can think of two reasons for that:

1)  The source material isn't very good.  Herodotus is a fine writer but as a reporter of accurate and useful military information he isn't on the level of Thucydides, Xenophon, Ptolemy (by way of Arrian and others), Caesar, etc.  What is a game designer supposed to do when the most important source of information on a campaign makes plainly outlandish claims like a 2 million man Persian army?

(then again - GMT is apparently releasing a game of ancient chariot battles that includes scenarios like Troy so perhaps this is not sufficient explanation).

2)  The two major land battles -- Marathon and Plataea - aren't really that interesting as battles for sim purposes.  Basically the little info we have suggests that the Persian infantry simply wasn't up the the task and was utterly crushed.  The Persians kept seeking opportunities to use their cavalry in open ground and the Greeks weren't dumb enough to bite.  I suppose you could make a Great Battles of History kind of game where the Persian infantry just sits in a terrible position and gets cut to ribbons, but what would be the point?  There is also Thermopylae which is of great historical interest but doesn't really make for a very interesting war game.

[Caliga]

Malthus, if you're vaguely interested in the region/broad period, there are multiple games out there that deal with Alexander's empire and successor states, at least one of which is considered a "classic".

[Malthus]

There is a Salamis game, IIRC.

It is kind of an under-represented period.  I can think of two reasons for that:

1)  The source material isn't very good.  Herodotus is a fine writer but as a reporter of accurate and useful military information he isn't on the level of Thucydides, Xenophon, Ptolemy (by way of Arrian and others), Caesar, etc.  What is a game designer supposed to do when the most important source of information on a campaign makes plainly outlandish claims like a 2 million man Persian army?

(then again - GMT is apparently releasing a game of ancient chariot battles that includes scenarios like Troy so perhaps this is not sufficient explanation).

2)  The two major land battles -- Marathon and Plataea - aren't really that interesting as battles for sim purposes.  Basically the little info we have suggests that the Persian infantry simply wasn't up the the task and was utterly crushed.  The Persians kept seeking opportunities to use their cavalry in open ground and the Greeks weren't dumb enough to bite.  I suppose you could make a Great Battles of History kind of game where the Persian infantry just sits in a terrible position and gets cut to ribbons, but what would be the point?  There is also Thermopylae which is of great historical interest but doesn't really make for a very interesting war game.

Makes sense. No doubt one would just have to invent the numbers on the Persian side.

It would make a better strategic than tactical concept. It would be kind on heat to somehow work in the impact of the various oracles and the effect of pre-battle sacrifices and the like.

Certainly one could have interesting battles of numbers and variety vs. quality (not forgetting that the Persians had some Greek infantry as well).

Almost makes me want to design one myself. 

[Malthus]

Malthus, if you're vaguely interested in the region/broad period, there are multiple games out there that deal with Alexander's empire and successor states, at least one of which is considered a "classic".

Which is the classic?

[Caliga]

I suppose I could have been more specific in my response.

http://www.gmtgames.com/p-117-successors.aspx

The original version by Avalon Hill was one of the first card-driven games, which is the dominant form for grand strategy consims now.  In fact it may have been the original... it was either that or Mark Herman's original We The People design... I always forget.

[Ed Anger]

There is a Salamis game, IIRC.

It is kind of an under-represented period.  I can think of two reasons for that:

1)  The source material isn't very good.  Herodotus is a fine writer but as a reporter of accurate and useful military information he isn't on the level of Thucydides, Xenophon, Ptolemy (by way of Arrian and others), Caesar, etc.  What is a game designer supposed to do when the most important source of information on a campaign makes plainly outlandish claims like a 2 million man Persian army?

(then again - GMT is apparently releasing a game of ancient chariot battles that includes scenarios like Troy so perhaps this is not sufficient explanation).

Guess the OOB.

[ulmont]

The original version by Avalon Hill was one of the first card-driven games, which is the dominant form for grand strategy consims now.  In fact it may have been the original... it was either that or Mark Herman's original We The People design... I always forget.

We The People.

[Jaron]

Try EU: Rome

[ulmont]

Successors appears to have an ACTS module, too, which is nice.

[The Minsky Moment]

GMT has the Great Battles of History series which is like 10 games now plus expansions.  They also have the Command and Colors ancient series which is the same idea only with a much more simplified rule set.  And they have a block game for the Peloponnesian war coming out soon that looks pretty promising.

Also the guy that did that Rommel game recently released a solitaire game based on the campaigns of Alexander the Great.

There are also a couple of ancients miniatures systems out there, none of which I am familiar with.

[Caliga]

GBOH has a weird feel to it that I don't like... I have the Cataphract game and IIRC the basic rules are way too basic, and the advanced rules are way too complicated.  I think Richard Berg was involved in the game as a designer or developer, and I don't typically like his game designs, so that might have something to do with it... he has a tendency to throw weird bits of esoterica into his rules which I always assumed was some way of showing off his MAD LEET history knowledge.

OTOH his Geronimo! game is one of my all-time favorites, so he has done some excellent work.