Could Augustus have had a canal built across the Suez? Should he have?

Started by jimmy olsen, May 02, 2021, 09:37:55 AM

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Could Augustus have had a canal built across the Suez? Should he have?

He could have and he should have.
4 (25%)
He could have, but it wasn't worth the cost of doing so.
3 (18.8%)
It was worth doing, but simply not feasible.
6 (37.5%)
It was neither feasible, nor worth doing.
3 (18.8%)

Total Members Voted: 16

The Brain

Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 02, 2021, 05:02:20 PM
Maybe it has something to do with the mountains in Panama.  Could that be it?

Possibly. Are they above sea level?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: The Brain on May 02, 2021, 05:25:43 PM
Possibly. Are they above sea level?

Beets me.  Maybe we should ask.  Someone is bound to know.

Monoriu

It should be noted that the Sui dynasty that built those canals only lasted some 40 years, short by Chinese standards.  A big part of the reason is that the peasants revolted because too many people were conscripted to build the canals and too many died.  There were other reasons but the canals were a material contributing factor. 

The problem wasn't technology.  It was politics. 

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Valmy on May 02, 2021, 01:37:32 PM
Well I guess going back to the canal of Ptolemy II, I mean they had one already so why would it occur to them to build another one? I mean we know a Suez canal is better but did the Romans even think of building another access to the Red Sea?
A canal across the Suez would be accessible year round. The one connecting to the nile depends on the level of the Nile and requires a lot more maintenance due to the locks.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
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jimmy olsen

Quote from: Solmyr on May 02, 2021, 12:47:21 PM
OTOH the Chinese canals went across populated areas, while the Suez canal would have to cross uninhabited desert? So there would be logistical problems in trying to build it back then.
You can supply them by ship and barge. No overland supply necessary.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

jimmy olsen

Quote from: grumbler on May 02, 2021, 02:56:05 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 02, 2021, 12:47:21 PM
OTOH the Chinese canals went across populated areas, while the Suez canal would have to cross uninhabited desert? So there would be logistical problems in trying to build it back then.

Yeah, I think the author grossly underestimates the cost of the canal by assuming that the workers would just magically appear, claim no more than the standard wage, take care of their own food and lodging, and then disappear when no longer needed.
Wouldn't most workers be slaves or legionaries?
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

viper37

Quote from: The Brain on May 02, 2021, 09:46:25 AM
How does a Suez canal compare to Chinese canal projects using essentially the same technology level? If a Suez canal wouldn't be a much bigger project than the biggest Chinese projects (single projects, not entire canal systems) then I think it's certain that the Romans COULD have done it.
they could have done it, and there were some canals made in antiquity, from the Nile to the Red Sea.
The problem however lies in maintaining it.  It has to be regularly redone. 
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

viper37

Quote from: Valmy on May 02, 2021, 01:37:32 PM
Well I guess going back to the canal of Ptolemy II, I mean they had one already so why would it occur to them to build another one? I mean we know a Suez canal is better but did the Romans even think of building another access to the Red Sea?
there was no direct link to the Red Sea by the time of Augustus, the Nile had moved and parts of the canal had been filled by sand.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Darth Wagtaros

Quote from: Solmyr on May 02, 2021, 12:47:21 PM
OTOH the Chinese canals went across populated areas, while the Suez canal would have to cross uninhabited desert? So there would be logistical problems in trying to build it back then.

There wer major logistical problems when the Suez was built. 
PDH!

Habbaku

Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 02, 2021, 06:20:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 02, 2021, 02:56:05 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 02, 2021, 12:47:21 PM
OTOH the Chinese canals went across populated areas, while the Suez canal would have to cross uninhabited desert? So there would be logistical problems in trying to build it back then.

Yeah, I think the author grossly underestimates the cost of the canal by assuming that the workers would just magically appear, claim no more than the standard wage, take care of their own food and lodging, and then disappear when no longer needed.
Wouldn't most workers be slaves or legionnaires?

Rome didn't have legionnaires.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

-J. R. R. Tolkien

Tamas

Why would the Romans, and Augustus especially, care about the Red Sea, first of all?

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Habbaku on May 02, 2021, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 02, 2021, 06:20:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 02, 2021, 02:56:05 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 02, 2021, 12:47:21 PM
OTOH the Chinese canals went across populated areas, while the Suez canal would have to cross uninhabited desert? So there would be logistical problems in trying to build it back then.

Yeah, I think the author grossly underestimates the cost of the canal by assuming that the workers would just magically appear, claim no more than the standard wage, take care of their own food and lodging, and then disappear when no longer needed.
Wouldn't most workers be slaves or legionnaires?

Rome didn't have legionnaires.
Shameful spelling error
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Tamas on May 02, 2021, 07:21:34 PM
Why would the Romans, and Augustus especially, care about the Red Sea, first of all?
He ordered a major invasion of Yemen. There were lots of rich trading cities on the coast of the Red Sea.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Grey Fox

Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 02, 2021, 07:32:19 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 02, 2021, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 02, 2021, 06:20:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 02, 2021, 02:56:05 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 02, 2021, 12:47:21 PM
OTOH the Chinese canals went across populated areas, while the Suez canal would have to cross uninhabited desert? So there would be logistical problems in trying to build it back then.

Yeah, I think the author grossly underestimates the cost of the canal by assuming that the workers would just magically appear, claim no more than the standard wage, take care of their own food and lodging, and then disappear when no longer needed.
Wouldn't most workers be slaves or legionnaires?

Rome didn't have legionnaires.
Shameful spelling error

:hmm:
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Grey Fox on May 02, 2021, 07:39:55 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 02, 2021, 07:32:19 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 02, 2021, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 02, 2021, 06:20:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 02, 2021, 02:56:05 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 02, 2021, 12:47:21 PM
OTOH the Chinese canals went across populated areas, while the Suez canal would have to cross uninhabited desert? So there would be logistical problems in trying to build it back then.

Yeah, I think the author grossly underestimates the cost of the canal by assuming that the workers would just magically appear, claim no more than the standard wage, take care of their own food and lodging, and then disappear when no longer needed.
Wouldn't most workers be slaves or legionnaires?

Rome didn't have legionnaires.
Shameful spelling error

:hmm:
Legionnaires
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionnaires%27_disease

Legionaries
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionary
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point